The DC Comics Thread

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

No JSA, hunh? Too bad. Alan aside, I liked the book. It's a shame it can't seem to go anywhere since Jhons left. Maybe it being retired for a time is for the best.

The whole "strange and new" thing is just plain odd to me. Obviously Blaqckest Night happened, so how can they be so new?

[Mrt1000son Dark Lord of the Sith Find all posts View Profile Close Mrt1000son]

Yeah in the new DCU Bruce Batman would have been the first costumed hero. We know that because Clark will be 22, Damien Wayne is 12 or 13 roughly half of Clark's age. Along with Dick Grayson being roughly the same age as Clark, I'm sorry unless they do the "Superman was Superboy when young" thing it means Bruce was first.

I really don't know how much I like that idea.




Darth_Andrea

It jsut seems somehow even more ridiculous than it already was


I'll probably get the GL/Seven Corps, Nightwing, Red Hood and Deathstroke books, Slade's always good and his solo series in the 90s wasn't that bad

[Darth_Andrea Owned by Natu Find all posts View Profile Close Darth_Andrea]

I swear every time I see this ...




My gut reacts as if it were this ...




I hope they do something to fix that.






Darth_Andrea

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

It's not so much about whose first, to me, but a question of the age gap between Superman and Batman. There's a certain dynamic between the Caped Crusader and the Man of Steel, where they stand on equal ground but represent two different sides of the crime fighting coin. Throw in an age gap, and you run the risk of turning that relationship into a mentorship instead of a friendship. Especially since we've had the new Superman described as angry and proactive.

I like the age gap and the relative experience level being equal but different.
Which has resulted in some really good clashes over approaches to the same problem.

That's actually a really valid point that I hadn't considered.

The whole "strange and new" thing is just plain odd to me. Obviously Blaqckest Night happened, so how can they be so new?

Assuming my assumption is correct, then like the batfamily GL's continuity is still intact except they didn't operate out of Earth as much.

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

Batman and Superman were never created to be opposites of one another or peers or anything else. They're two completely different and unique creations who, thanks to corporate ownership, have become tied to each other because of their ability to sell underpants.

Why would it matter if Bruce suddenly became a mentor figure to Clark? If the story was well told and it was handled in an interesting manner... where's the harm?

My only concern with this re-boot-launch is that it appears to be completely inorganic and driven by an attempt to conquer market share instead of reacting to artistic or creative concerns. It also suggests that my dream of a completely rebooted DCU 2.0 is even less likely to occur than I previously thought.

[Razorgod Anti-Monitor Find all posts View Profile Close Razorgod]

Batman and Superman were never created to be opposites of one another or peers or anything else. They're two completely different and unique creations who, thanks to corporate ownership, have become tied to each other because of their ability to sell underpants.

Why would it matter if Bruce suddenly became a mentor figure to Clark? If the story was well told and it was handled in an interesting manner... where's the harm?

Viagra wasn't created to give old men boners, but that's what it became. So you're first point is pretty invalid. Maybe they didn't start out that way, but it did eventually become a part of their dynamic. And when it's been acknowledged, it's been pretty interesting at times.

Superman and Batman, for as long as I've read comics, have represented two different approaches to the same fight.

Why would it matter? Because the motivations of each character don't mesh. Their ideologies are as different as night and day.

[Marvelous Iggy God Of Turtles Find all posts View Profile Close Marvelous Iggy]

Fuck Superman, Zatanna is on JLark

GO Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+ YouTube Video

[Gray Lantern Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gray Lantern]

Viagra wasn't created to give old men boners, but that's what it became. So you're first point is pretty invalid. Maybe they didn't start out that way, but it did eventually become a part of their dynamic. And when it's been acknowledged, it's been pretty interesting at times.

Superman and Batman, for as long as I've read comics, have represented two different approaches to the same fight.

Why would it matter? Because the motivations of each character don't mesh. Their ideologies are as different as night and day.

Even so, I could see the mentorship being a cool way of representing that. Batman has his own way of doing things that is much different than Superman's. I think it could be interesting to see this relationship in a new light. Lends itself to new story possibilities, while being able to keep intact their opposite ways of dealing out justice. In fact, an age difference can reinforce that, with Bruce having more of an old school approach as compared to a youthful Clark approach.

(Man, I can't believe I just defended something about the relaunch.)

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

Viagra wasn't created to give old men boners, but that's what it became. So you're first point is pretty invalid. Maybe they didn't start out that way, but it did eventually become a part of their dynamic. And when it's been acknowledged, it's been pretty interesting at times.

Superman and Batman, for as long as I've read comics, have represented two different approaches to the same fight.

Why would it matter? Because the motivations of each character don't mesh. Their ideologies are as different as night and day.

First of all the idea that somehow they're opposite sides of the same coin is something that has always bothered me as being insanely simplistic.

Neither of them kill, they both wear "costumes", they both have "secret identities"... the only difference in their "approach" is that editors and writers have decided that for some reason humans would be more terrified of a random dude in a bat suit instead of being scared of an alien who could massacre the entire planet in an instant if he felt like it.

Secondly... the idea that two characters who are each over 70 years old and have been depicted by thousands of creative teams in thousands of different relationships can't be altered because "they've come to be" something that you're comfortable with is mildly insulting to the rest of the world don't you think?

Like I said... if the stories are told well and the characters retain even a modicum of their familiarity there should be no problem.

In fact... I would argue that anybody with any kind of mature appreciation of comic books as an art form should be encouraged and even slightly excited to see these characters re-imagined instead of just rehashed month after month.

My previous comments about the motivation for those changes not withstanding....

[Razorgod Anti-Monitor Find all posts View Profile Close Razorgod]

First of all the idea that somehow they're opposite sides of the same coin is something that has always bothered me as being insanely simplistic.

It is simplistic, but given that everyone has some degree of familiarity with these characters, I didn't think a lot of embellishment was called for.

Neither of them kill, they both wear "costumes", they both have "secret identities"... the only difference in their "approach" is that editors and writers have decided that for some reason humans would be more terrified of a random dude in a bat suit instead of being scared of an alien who could massacre the entire planet in an instant if he felt like it.

Neither of them kill, but Bruce has admitted that he purposefully walks that line to keep from stepping too far over. His compunction over killing has nothing to do with the value of human life, but rather trying to keep a hold of a piece of his own soul/sanity. Whereas for Clark, it's about life and a willingness to let the system carry out punishment. So while both don't kill, their views on that simple similarity are completely different.

That they both wear costumes and only one of them is feared by the public at large, ties into the first point. Batman wears his anger on his sleeve. He operates in the dark of knight, and has an extremely limited public persona. He's mysterious. A Fairly unknown quantity. Whereas Superman operates publicly in the light of day. His values on life and justice are well known.

It's a lot like why criminals are more scared of other criminals then they are cops. Cops operate by rules. There's a system there that's pretty predictable. Whereas criminals operate by a different, and wholly inconsistent set of rules. It's unpredictable. The fact that Batman operates so secretive plays to that appeal to chaos. The average criminal doesn't know Batman doesn't kill.

And their secret identities? Nothing similar there either. Bruce chose to become Batman and uses his life as Bruce as a shroud to protect his life as Batman. Clark was always Superman, but he uses Superman to protect his life as Clark. Same concept, completely different approach.
And before this goes semantic....

The difference is that Clark has a wife, he has real friends, something that means something outside of the tights. He wears the tights to protect that life and those people.

Where as Bruce has very little that hasn't been incorporated into his life as Batman. He stays in the persona of Batman, because if anyone found out he was Bruce, they could take Batman away from him.

Secondly... the idea that two characters who are each over 70 years old and have been depicted by thousands of creative teams in thousands of different relationships can't be altered because "they've come to be" something that you're comfortable with is mildly insulting to the rest of the world don't you think?

How is it insulting to the world? Has there been a world wide consensus that these relationships need to be completely rewritten? Am I the only critical hold out?

In fact... I would argue that anybody with any kind of mature appreciation of comic books as an art form should be encouraged and even slightly excited to see these characters re-imagined instead of just rehashed month after month.

Awwww, the old "No True Scotsman" argument. The problem is that over the years, anytime someone wanted to "reimagine" Superman, it's been done. Twice last year alone. One in the Elseworlds 'Last Family of Krypton' and once again in 'Superman Earth One". I bought both of these stories, and enjoyed them for what they were. But I wouldn't have wanted either of those stories to replace mainstream continuity. Not because I'm some sort of old bastard who thinks all change is bad, but because that level of change for the sake of change itself is unnecessary. It's not a question of maturity.

It's a question of taste. I like Superman the way he is. If there are no more Superman stories to be told, then why not close that character off, and move onto something else?

Why can't I be a real scotsman, just because I'm not as open minded to the idea of the level of change being implemented, in the manner it's being done.

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

The difference is that Clark has a wife, he has real friends, something that means something outside of the tights. He wears the tights to protect that life and those people.

Where as Bruce has very little that hasn't been incorporated into his life as Batman. He stays in the persona of Batman, because if anyone found out he was Bruce, they could take Batman away from him.

I'm gonna ignore the rest of this because I just don't give a shit BUT.....

Alfred
Dick Grayson
Jason Todd
Tim Drake
Damien Wayne
Selina Kyle
Talia Al Ghul
Barbara Gordon


Everybody in Gothan with a mask and some spandex has an open invitation to the Batcave.... Superman has a Fortress of SOLITUDE.

Do you people even read comics?

[Razorgod Anti-Monitor Find all posts View Profile Close Razorgod]

I'm gonna ignore the rest of this because I just don't give a shit BUT.....

Alfred
Dick Grayson
Jason Todd
Tim Drake
Damien Wayne
Selina Kyle
Talia Al Ghul
Barbara Gordon


Everybody in Gothan with a mask and some spandex has an open invitation to the Batcave.... Superman has a Fortress of SOLITUDE.

Do you people even read comics?

Too bad you didn't read my post, you might of missed a pretty important point about your reply.....

Where as Bruce has very little that hasn't been incorporated into his life as Batman. He stays in the persona of Batman, because if anyone found out he was Bruce, they could take Batman away from him.

That list is a part of his life as Batman. That some of that bleeds into his life as Bruce is happenstance.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Assuming my assumption is correct, then like the batfamily GL's continuity is still intact except they didn't operate out of Earth as much.

What I mean is BN had everything to do with dead heroes coming back to life. How can there be dead heroes if everyone's just starting? Or "pretty much" just starting since this "is set earlier in their careers".

Time compression to the nth power I guess. If everyone's just starting out yet Bats has had .... however many Robins he's had until now (5?) and ET still led to BN then it all happened in the space of ..... a year? Franklin Richards style?

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

What I mean is BN had everything to do with dead heroes coming back to life. How can there be dead heroes if everyone's just starting? Or "pretty much" just starting since this "is set earlier in their careers".

Time compression to the nth power I guess. If everyone's just starting out yet Bats has had .... however many Robins he's had until now (5?) and ET still led to BN then it all happened in the space of ..... a year? Franklin Richards style?

Well maybe BN didn't happen? We could have all the different colored corps without BN. I'm sure they'll explain it eventually.

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

Too bad you didn't read my post, you might of missed a pretty important point about your reply.....



That list is a part of his life as Batman. That some of that bleeds into his life as Bruce is happenstance.

Yea I missed that....

Still... you're wrong.