What's Still Canon?

[Guest Close Duskdog]

All this talk about what jerks the Guardians are being these days (as well as a recent read-through of the "Who's the Greatest Green Lantern?" thread), got me to thinking: has Guy's history been stealthily retconned, or is it all still valid?

For instance, is it still official that Guy was a teacher? If not, it kind of screws with his GL origin somewhat, because what other reason would he have had to get himself injured so that John Stewart was picked to wear the ring instead of him when Hal needed someone? I know that Geoff hasn't said one way or the other, but I wonder a bit, because in a couple of places Guy is just referred to as "a former football player". Which is also true, of course, but you'd think college athletics would take a backseat to an adult career.

Primarily, though, I'm wondering about Guy's brain damage. The Guardians being total dicks is nothing new -- they were dicks all along with regard to Guy. He got injured in the line of duty through no fault of his own, by enemies he didn't know anything about, and the Guardians let him stay in that coma for a couple of years for the lame reason of "Oh, he was only a back-up, not a real GL". And then, for a second kick in the nuts, when he woke up with brain damage, they let him stay that way because they thought he was better as an aggressive Lantern rather than the more restrained man he was before the accident.

The reason I ask is because nearly every writer who has ever written Guy after GL v.2/GLC V.1 has ignored the brain damage factor. I loved JLI/JLA, for instance, but the various writers of that book led an entire generation of comic readers to believe that Guy was just an arrogant jerk for no reason. I'm not saying that everyone has to love his character or anything like that, just that knowing what he went through and struggled with, and how badly it affected him, can add an entire new dimension to the understanding and appreciation of his character.

So you'd think that Guy would have a bigger beef with the Guardians anyway. And Sinestro, too -- the guy tortured him to the point of catatonia, after all. Yet all this seems to conveniently have been forgotten.

Or maybe it's all still canon, but just hasn't come up lately? What do you think? For that matter, what do you think about his history, period? Do you think it would be a mistake to retcon his time as a teacher (he's been shown to be good with young people lately: Jaime and Milagro Reyes, even playing with Jim Jordan's kids in that brief scene post-SCW)?

Hell, I'll take thoughts and opinions on anything Guy. This forum is too dead -- we need Guy discussion.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

I think the Warrior series addressed some of Guy's jerki-ness. They made him deeper.

The brain-damage deal hasn't been addressed in a very long time and I don't think he's brain damaged anymore. He doesn't really act like he did when he first came out of his coma anyway, so there's no point. He's more tough than a straight-up murderous asshole now.

[unclegnewman Weaponer of Qward Find all posts View Profile Close unclegnewman]

Guy's history is kind of a mess. If you piece together the Volume #2 origin, Guy Gardner #11-14, and Emerald Dawn II, it seems like Guy being a teacher is a constant and is probably still canon, but his job as a prison Social Worker in ED II is probably gone. Although I liked ED II, this storyline contradicted with how he 1st met Hal in his Volume #2 introduction and has most likely been eliminated, given that this entire series seems to have been wiped away. His early history, told in Guy Gardner #11-14, is probably still canon with the slight alteration in Booster Gold #2 that gave Guy some closure with his father.

So what's left is largely his origin from Volume #2 (he was a gym teacher picked as a backup and was injured saving his kids during an earthquake). The brain damage was mentioned quite a bit during his JLA days but was played for laughs (with Guy's personality changing when he got hit on the head, etc...) His "recovery" could be a result of the process in Rebirth of removing the Vuldarian DNA and restoring him to 100% human. I makes sense for him to have been restored without brain damage.

It seems completely in character for the Guardians to have left him in his brain damaged state. Green Lanterns are somewhat expendable in the Guardians eyes. They don't get directly involved in protecting their Lanterns, and I don't think they would bother to take the time to heal a backup's brain damage. In the greater picture, a brain damaged backup earth Lantern was insignificant. The more direct and logical response to them would be to just pick another backup (John Stewart). It was only during the Crisis, when a splinter group of Guardians needed a Lantern with questionable morality, did they decide to revive Guy. This is where Guy's history really gets murky. Guy's actions during the Englehart run have been largely ignored, (particularly when he tried to kill Hal).

I think he is still portrayed as a jerk at times, but he's obviously written now as if he has matured. IMO it's appropriate; Guy went through losing his ring, gaining and losing his yellow ring and warrior powers, ice dying and coming back, and establishing stronger friendships with John, Kyle, and Hal. Plus having lost and regained his GL ring, it's clear that being a part of the Corps is very important to Guy.

[GUYCORPS Green Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close GUYCORPS]

Hey there Duskdog, you are right this forum has been a little quiet of late!

Regarding GUY and his past, i know Geoff gave GUY the opportunity to say goodbye to his dying father ( see Booster Gold # 2 ) how that changes him, i'm not to sure? ( probably takes the edge off his aggression, who knows )

However as you have asked about his psychology and teaching background, i can only assume it's all intact ( until i'm told otherwise ). Those that only see/saw GUY as a jerk did not take the time to find out about the man inside, for goodness sake he was made a Green Lantern, he was equally chosen to bear the ring and in an alternate timeline succeeded as much as Hal did. One major difference, he was fucked over royally time and again, but he kept coming back!

GUY gets on with those who take the time to get to know what he's about and he has a lot of insight once you break the tough guy exterior ( i'm referring to his time's guiding Kyle while he was still a rookie and his words of wisdom to Jaime Reyes not so long ago ). I've always believed that GUY is a helluva lot smarter than most villians ( Sinestro for eg ) or any of his colleagues ( Batman ) give him credit for. His one great weakness is probably his short temper, that's got him into more trouble than anything else. Lately he seems to have that in check. As far as the brain damage, that was soughted once he became Warrior!

But what you will find ( check this out i know i have ) is he's always front and centre when the shit hits the fan, be it COIE, Zero hour, E.T, Doomsday, Way of the Warrior, Infinite Crisis, 52, Final Crisis, Sinestro Corp War, you name it he's there, no matter how many times he's been kicked down and messed around he just dusts himself off and keeps on fighting! I think that's why i dig this character so much, he's more real to me, he gets beaten a lot but he never gives up or complains and when he does win a fight it's fantastic.

Personally i'd love for GUY to will Sinestro's ring off yet again and kick his ass saying: " Who's your mad dog now? "

Ultimate payback would be for GUY to whip Superboy Prime's ass! With the needle that's been there between the two of them this would seriously put GUY on a different level. Also the whole teacher getting an undisciplined child in line would so fit in. That's why i got Ethan to do the commission that he did!

I'd say GUY is more your everyman, he's certainly not a pretty boy, he loves sport and drinking a few with the boy's, he's no loverboy/ladiesman ( like Hal ) and ironically even though he ogles the ladies a lot, he's pretty loyal to the woman he loves ( TORA ).

I can only hope that GUY gets his moment to really shine during Blackest Night and comes out a better GL for it. C'mon lets see the DCU shitkicker kick some ass....

[Guest Close Duskdog]

Yeah, I've always assumed (can't recall if it was explicitly stated in the comics or not) that Guy's transformation into Warrior healed his brain damage. Then he matured a lot during that series, and has become the Guy we know and love today. Still a jerk sometimes, but by choice and with a purpose now.

I've also assumed for a while now that ED I and II aren't canon -- or at least, parts aren't. Specifically, the Hal drunk-driving thing, and Guy's role with Hal in prison, and probably the Fists (seriously, why would they create robots wearing jackets anyway?). I rather like the portrayal of Sinestro's courtmartial, and I assume that it, or at least the spirit of it, is still canon because it fits rather well with how Geoff has chosen to portray Sinestro.

Personally, I think I'm going to assume that Guy's teacher origin is still intact, because 1. nothing makes sense without it and 2. I think it's an integral part of his character. I do wish it would get referenced every now and then, though. I don't know why Guy pitched such a hissy-fit when he was assigned to train rookies at the beginning of GLC: Recharge -- he would have been good at it and probably enjoyed it.

He probably just would rather be in the middle of the action, which is totally in-character.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

I'd say nothing in Emerald Dawns 1 and 2 are cannon. You don't need ED2 for Sinestro's court marshal ... if it ever comes up I'm sure they'll just rewrite it (like they did with Boodka losing her hand).

I wouldn't mind seeing Guy kick a little more ass than we've been seeing. Blackest Night is upon us, so we might even see it! I suppose it's too much to hope that Militia is a Black Lantern for even a panel (I'm pretty sure Militia's dead).

[Guest Close Duskdog]

I'd say nothing in Emerald Dawns 1 and 2 are cannon. You don't need ED2 for Sinestro's court marshal ... if it ever comes up I'm sure they'll just rewrite it (like they did with Boodka losing her hand).

I wouldn't mind seeing Guy kick a little more ass than we've been seeing. Blackest Night is upon us, so we might even see it! I suppose it's too much to hope that Militia is a Black Lantern for even a panel (I'm pretty sure Militia's dead).

That's true about the courtmartial, but I just always liked the way it was handled in ED II. Sinestro just seems so... bewildered that Katma could betray him. Like it actually hurt his feelings. (And yeah, they'll probably rewrite it, anyway.)

Guy totally needs to kick some ass. He's supposed to be the big cheese among Lanterns, and he outranks Hal, but every time Hal is around, Guy just sort of falls into line behind him, which I don't understand at all. And whenever something big happens, Guy gets himself hurt and ends up getting hauled around.

It's high time we see him let loose! And Blackest Night is the best time to do it. He doesn't have to worry about killing people who are already dead, after all.

And Militia as a Black Lantern? I hope so. I know there's a new Militia in town, who may or may not be Mace, but I'm assuming it's a new guy and that Mace is still as dead as he was the last time we saw him. Or close anyway.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

I really liked ED2 as well. They threw away a lot of good stuff to make Secret Origins work. I also liked how Sin was portrayed as just not knowing what he did wrong.

Although it doesn't quite jive witht he current depiction of Sinestro. You know, since he still considers himelf an agent of order, not chaos (at the end of the trial in ED2 he proclaims how he'll spread chaos instead of order).

Is Dementor dead? I can't remember what happened to him offhand. Which of Guy's villains are candidated for the BKLC?

[unclegnewman Weaponer of Qward Find all posts View Profile Close unclegnewman]

I think Guy killed the Dementor in their last battle, but I doubt you'll ever see him again. The presence of the Dementor, even as a BLKL, would imply that his story was canon, and if that's the case then the plot line that the Dementor was always responsible for Guys mood swings would also still be canon. It seems like there is an unofficial ban on any Warrior references ever again.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Yeah, seeing a BKL Dementor or Militia may be asking for too much continuity than Vol 4 and GLC can handle!

[Guest Close Duskdog]

I really liked ED2 as well. They threw away a lot of good stuff to make Secret Origins work. I also liked how Sin was portrayed as just not knowing what he did wrong.

Although it doesn't quite jive witht he current depiction of Sinestro. You know, since he still considers himelf an agent of order, not chaos (at the end of the trial in ED2 he proclaims how he'll spread chaos instead of order).

Is Dementor dead? I can't remember what happened to him offhand. Which of Guy's villains are candidated for the BKLC?

True. Seems the current Sinestro is sort of a combination of both -- he still doesn't believe he did anything wrong, so I can easily see him feeling betrayed by the Corps for turning on him. And he still believes he's fixing things.

Dementor, ugh. Yeah, I hope we can pretend he never happened, but Guy just doesn't have enough good villains. Militia is the best bet, I think. I would have said Major Force, too, but he came back already. Several times.

I can't even think of anyone else near and dear to Guy who's dead that might be likely to come back and cause him issues. I doubt they'd bother with his father (and really, what sort of challenge is a zombie drunkard, anyway?), Tora is back already... Kari Limbo maybe, just for an emotional moment? But then, Hal dated her, too, so he'll probably get to steal that moment, bah.

I do hope he runs into BL Ted Kord.

[unclegnewman Weaponer of Qward Find all posts View Profile Close unclegnewman]

It's true his stable of villains is pretty weak, but I guess Militia would have the most emotional impact. I think Guy would get up for a fight with Black Lantern Max Lord. Max conned everyone, including Guy, for years and I'm sure Guy would love some payback for Ted Kord.