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Old 10-31-2018, 06:07 PM   #51
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Digital sales account for six percent of total comics sales, and they have for a long time. Digital is the future of comics that never arrives.
Where do you get that from? The last I checked, no one is publishing those sales. That seems really low to me. We have 58 active members here and I'm pretty sure there's at least six people who read digital (again from the so-called old-fart population that are least likely to convert to digital).
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:20 PM   #52
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Six percent is Comichron's estimate. I tend to believe them.

Something else -- a reboot shouldn't be about a writer "getting creative" and adding things. It's not about him. It's about taking out things that have become problematic.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:53 PM   #53
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Go on any message board and see how long it takes for someone to dredge up Hal and Arisia, Batman beating up Guy, and John screwing up and getting a planet destroyed. It never takes long. Nobody cares enough about Kyle any more to mention "You'll have to do."

You keep fighting the idea of a reboot as if you're protecting something. What are you protecting? If it's good, it'll get used again. You don't need to protect it.
The people that frequent those message boards and dredge that stuff up, are THEY the audience you are hoping to gain? I thought you were looking for NEW readers. Those folks are, by and large, the "old farts" you so disdain, I thought. Why force a total reboot because of what THEY are saying? (Especially given that, even with a reboot, they will STILL be bringing that stuff up. People that choose to focus on the negative on message boards aren't going to be thwarted by your reboot.)

I would fight a reboot because it is, IMHO, lazy and unnecessary. It doesn't give you any more story potential unless you are planning on a.) completely changing the character in all but name (in which case I'd argue that making a new character is less arbitrarily destructive), or b.) rehashing the same stuff that you are getting rid of, only "updated", and that doesn't strike me as particularly appealing.

That said, if a reboot really didn't utterly change the character, and actually allowed stuff from the past to be brought in if the writers wanted to, that'd be a pretty "soft" reboot, and in practice I'd probably have very little to complain about. In that case, though, I'd be quietly chuckling to myself if DC kept trying to emphasize that "everything from the past is gone!".
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:05 PM   #54
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Even if you were to reboot and change things so that all the Earth Lanterns, or whichever ones would be used, got their rings at the same time, that still wouldn't change the idea among some fans and creators/editors that Hal Jordan is superior to the other Lanterns because he got his ring first in the old continuity. That is an idea that has been deeply ingrained in the minds of the people who feel that way, and the history of Hal Jordan getting the ring first and being created and published before the other Lanterns will always be there for whoever wants to look back at it.

The people who feel Hal Jordan because of that are always going to use the reasoning that, in some shape or form, he was first and all other Green Lanterns owe their creation to him (despite the fact that ALL Green Lanterns owe their creation to the concept of Alan Scott, but that is neither here nor there). Reboots be damned, you will NEVER change that. The most you can do is add a little nuance to the argument. And my view is, "why bother," seeing as people are just going to hold the views they are going to hold regardless of what you do. and that is their right. To fans of other Green Lanterns, being first apparently isn't important to them. Fans will always bring up old continuity to use against or for a character. I don't believe rebooting will stop that.

Admittedly, it is really unfortunate when writers keep referencing unfortunate incidents, like John Stewart destroying a world, instead of more or less rectifying them and/or acting like they never happened, like Hal Jordan's coupling with Arisia. I imagine there are many readers of Green Lantern these days that don't know about that or never read any of it, because we're about thirty years removed from it and writers pretty much never reference it. Editorial could easily mandate a hard stop to stories about John Stewart blowing up a planet if they cared to without having to throw out decades of continuity.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:02 AM   #55
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"You will have to do." was only ever brought up by Hal fans who didn't think Kyle was worthy to wear the ring of a man's man like Hal.

I think the most obvious option would be to put the two most popular GL's [Hal and Kyle] in a comic together, but somebody higher up at DC is afraid ol' Hal will become second fiddle in his own book. If the two of them had starred in GL's... I seriously doubt it would be getting cancelled unless the editors just completely dropped the ball with the writers/artists.

Letting writers pick and choose what's in-continuity and what isn't has always worked best. People are always re-telling origins and updating characters, but when you think about it... all the stories ever published can't have happened because you can only do so much superhero adventuring and retconning in the context of a year. If you divide the number of appearances (14,641 issues) by the number of days in a year (365) for Superman, he's had enough day to day adventures to span a 40+ year career nonstop. How long has he supposed to have been operating in the modern DCU... like 10-15 years tops? Yeeeeeeeeeah.....

I think the only writer who gets a serious nerd boner from the idea 'everything happened' is Grant Morrison anyway. That's why stuff like Super Ant and Porcupine Jimmy Olsen are showing up again in Sideways, and why the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh was used in Morrison's Batman run.

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Old 11-01-2018, 04:41 AM   #56
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The advantage of doing it with a reboot is that just not mentioning it doesn't get rid of it. A lot of people will assume that it still happened. You have to tell them explicitly that it didn't. Then it'll be gone.
DC's entire Rebirth reboot centered around giving back the importance of old events. The New 52 started out strong, but it had fizzled. While I liked the New 52, it seems that DC bowed to a large percentage of stalwart readers who didn't like so many characters being removed from their respective histories. I seriously doubt that DC is going to go against their current zeitgeist with Green Lantern when their other titles have made a point of highlighting and honoring the legacies of past characters.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:45 AM   #57
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"You will have to do." was only ever brought up by Hal fans who didn't think Kyle was worthy to wear the ring of a man's man like Hal.
When that moment was revisited in HJ&TGLC, I'll admit that I shed a couple of tears when Ganthet said this:



This is one of my all-time favorite comic book moments.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:12 AM   #58
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That is fantastic.
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:22 PM   #59
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Creating nonstop characters just to sell a few more action figures is going down a dark path.
That's what Geoff did.

"Oh noes! No one cares about GL Megavent 12 or Sinestro Corps War #301! What do do? I got it! I'll make a couple of new Green Lanterns! That will be my legacy WOOT!!"
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Old 11-03-2018, 01:37 AM   #60
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I don't think a whole lot has to be done with Johns run. It's easier to ignore all his hack garbage than the retcon it. Just stop using the characters and elements that are unwanted as time goes by.

It's trickier when flashbacks will be done of the history and mythology that contradicts stories Johns did...but whatever. He did the same thing to writers that came before him. I'm just not a big fan of using reset buttons.
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Old 11-03-2018, 02:31 AM   #61
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Just take out that bad stuff that I mentioned. Oh, and Baz, Cruz and that teen Lantern too, in case anyone thinks they're not bad.
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Old 11-03-2018, 02:35 AM   #62
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I don't think a whole lot has to be done with Johns run. It's easier to ignore all his hack garbage than the retcon it. Just stop using the characters and elements that are unwanted as time goes by.

It's trickier when flashbacks will be done of the history and mythology that contradicts stories Johns did...but whatever. He did the same thing to writers that came before him. I'm just not a big fan of using reset buttons.
I think the main problems writers face post-Johns is that he often uses as much of the history as possible and ties too much together to make a larger story. About the only thing we didn't get were Johns' reinterpretations of Javelin, Entropy, and Evil Star....

There's still a good bit of the more obscure material creators can draw from. Lord Malvolio, Invisible Destroyer, Extant... there's so much more a creative team could do with these characters/concepts. I'm still waiting for a few golden age rogues to bridge over like Icicle and Thorn.

Robert V. finally did some stuff with the GLC I enjoyed. Starros, Brainiac, and the House of Zod were all excellent foils for the Corps. Had HJ&tGLC been two separate comics with more pages to tell the stories it would've been 100x better.

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Old 11-03-2018, 04:21 AM   #63
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I think the main problems writers face post-Johns is that he often uses as much of the history as possible and ties too much together to make a larger story...
And the difference from Morrison's heavy use of backlog and Johns was that the latter retcons them all.

Morrison is happy to throw in Kiteman or an off-hand reference to some villain who appearance in one 50s Batman comic (without bothering to explain if it was more recent).

Johns brings back Black Hand, but gives him such different origins, motives, and powers, that they can't possibly be reconciled with the previous.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:07 AM   #64
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And the difference from Morrison's heavy use of backlog and Johns was that the latter retcons them all.

Morrison is happy to throw in Kiteman or an off-hand reference to some villain who appearance in one 50s Batman comic (without bothering to explain if it was more recent).

Johns brings back Black Hand, but gives him such different origins, motives, and powers, that they can't possibly be reconciled with the previous.
Sounds about right.
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Old 11-03-2018, 12:19 PM   #65
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And the difference from Morrison's heavy use of backlog and Johns was that the latter retcons them all.

Morrison is happy to throw in Kiteman or an off-hand reference to some villain who appearance in one 50s Batman comic (without bothering to explain if it was more recent).

Johns brings back Black Hand, but gives him such different origins, motives, and powers, that they can't possibly be reconciled with the previous.
Morrison is about to write some issues of Sideways that dives into the Dark Multiverse that has several one-off characters featured. More extreme versions of Big Brain Lois, Porcupine Jimmy Olsen, Morrison's 7 Soldiers were recently used, and now even Morrison's t-shirt clad New52 Superman is making appearances.

Black Hand was one of the first characters I thought about when thinking about all the stuff GJ did during his time. Multiple new power sets, tying him to Nekron, the birth of the Black Lanterns, etc. The character was NEVER that big of a threat before. Before showing up in Geoff's run, Hand was last seen in Guy Gardner Reborn in 1992. Hand had opened a "Gentle Massage" business that was a front for illegal activities in NYC. The character and series was also written by Gerard I-can't-read-this-pedo's-stuff-anymore Jones.

Morrison takes past continuity in as inspiration for fun stories that mostly doesn't effect 90% of the DCU proper, as he's big on using Multiverse concepts. Geoff often tried too hard to one-up his last big story when it came to GL and it's DC's fault for letting him have that long of a leash. I enjoyed Geoff's stints on JSA quite a bit. And his run on Aquaman was also a great read. His Justice League had a lot of good bits as well. And his Teen Titans run was one of the best for that franchise if not THE best. For me Geoff's GL stuff just got old quick after the mega event that was BN and then DC rebooting and relaunching everything.

I can't wait to see what Morrison does with both GL and his time on the Sideways comics. I'm both excited and scared for Geoff's Shazam, but with the Eaglesham art it's a must buy for me. I'm hoping it's more like a modern spin on the Power of Shazam era and GJ uses a few old Fawcett characters like Bulletman proper, Spy Smasher, and Mister Scarlet in his stories here and there.

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Old 11-03-2018, 03:43 PM   #66
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Johns brings back Black Hand, but gives him such different origins, motives, and powers, that they can't possibly be reconciled with the previous.
That is the definition of Geoffconning.

And he does it for no reason except to put his mark on everything he writes, just as a dog marks its territory by urinating on its surroundings.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:02 PM   #67
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That was the side of Geoff Johns' writing that I disliked the most. Him just doing HIS versions of characters that totally changed what they were and the continuity that they came through. It doesn't hurt anything to just never reference this war of light or that war of corps, its all the characters that if you want to use again, one has to use HIS take on them, or retcon them again.

Some worked out for the best. I think Geoff's Sinestro is by FAR the best Sinestro has been in the history of the series. His take of the Shark was better and something I would keep. Same with Hector Hammond, that worked pretty well. His Blackhand? I would retcon the heck out of him before using him again. No way would I continue to tie him to. The black lanterns, Nekron, and any lantern corps.

I would outright murder Baz and Cruz though. Just murder the f#ck out of them.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:11 PM   #68
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I would also never again admit that any story happened where any DC hero villain or supporting character EVER briefly wore any colored power ring or got inducted to one of these super gay groups. No Scarecrow as a yellow lantern. Superman or Flash as blue lanterns.

No Perry White's 2nd cousin's husband's stepson was a travel phantom 1st lantern crossed amalgamated with a tranny sailor moon. I see enough shitty cosplay at cons, I don't need it in my Green Lantern comics too.

I would also never reference any GL crossing over and using another colored ring again. I wouldn't make a big retcon out of it or anything. I would just never write dialogue in stories where the characters are talking about how John was an Indigo Lantern, or Hal and Kyle using every ring under the sun. Let those stories never be mentioned again.
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:37 PM   #69
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You would still need to specify that the stuff that made the Earth Lanterns look bad never happened, because some people would be too stupid to get that and would assume that it happened.
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:22 AM   #70
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Some of what Johns did can't be ignored. Black Hand as the living embodiment of the Black Entity... or something? There is a White Entity so surely this needs to be delved into.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:18 PM   #71
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I think someone should take another good look at Star Sapphire again, too. In my opinion, she doesn't necessarily need to be a mind controlled villain--although she could be--but she certainly shouldn't have a power ring or a corps. Her gem worked just fine. Besides, the Sapphire corps seemed pretty aimless and lacked a clear mission. I don't think they contribute anything worthwhile.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:00 PM   #72
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Some of what Johns did can't be ignored. Black Hand as the living embodiment of the Black Entity... or something? There is a White Entity so surely this needs to be delved into.
I'm guessing that Morrison's new run will only feature a few of Geoff's golden era creations, but I wish that one of them would be the Blue Lanterns. It doesn't need to be a huge group, DC could just toss a few stagnant characters from other titles Morrison's way.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:10 PM   #73
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I'd be really surprised if Grant Morrison used, much less mentioned, the blue lantern corps in any capacity. That doesn't seem to fit with the vibe of the direction he appears to be taking the mythos.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:53 PM   #74
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Johns got me into the Black Hand character, I had absolutely no attachment or interest in him before, but I'd be open to returning it more to his origins of a kind of evil genius. Maybe they could explain that when he had his super hero induced mental breakdown he became confused about who he was, make it seem like his connection to the Black Lanterns is all a part of his psychosis. He could still be obsessed with death, a necrophiliac, which would explain why his family would want to disown him, but his origins are jumbled because he has since gone insane or something.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:02 PM   #75
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I'm not addressing this to any person, but if you think Green Lantern sucked before Geoff Johns, or if you think it sucked before Kyle Rayner, then you're entitled to think so, but there's nothing I can say about it that will make any sense to you.

Most stuff doesn't get better as it goes on. After a certain point it tends to get worse. That's because the people who gain control have a different idea about it that's not reconcilable with whatever made it good in the first place. Or because they just want to leave their mark on it.

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