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Sector 0
View Poll Results: Is Geoff still pulling the strings? (with the GL books)
Hell no, that's insane 5 11.63%
No 5 11.63%
Probably not 2 4.65%
To some degree, yeah 6 13.95%
Yes 6 13.95%
Are you kidding me? Of course he is 19 44.19%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-23-2014, 09:08 PM   #51
Mister Ed
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With respect, I don't think that claim can be made due to thier actions during ET. No one is allwoed to play god and bring people back from the dead. Now here to stop you is Sinestro,mass murderer whic we just brought back from the dead.

It is not the only example of the Guardians being dicks. But that is hardly the main point,the main point is it is not Goeff's idea. If you wanna say he rehased a bad idea that would be fair.


That is my overall problem with people calling out Goeff People seem to be so angry at him they overlook the facts,wich is a shame because I myself have some gripes. I am waiting for other people to notice them,because I don't want to give the straight up hatters new ammo. However I would love to discuss some of the real flaws in his run. However the Anti-Goeff crowed has yet to notice them.
With respect, if you really think what Geoff did with the Gaurdians is at all comparable to previous writers' depictions of them as "dicks", I think you are the one overlooking facts. Even during ET, the Guardians were depicted as insensitive, not evil. (Though I certainly concede that the Guardians depicted in ET were pretty dumb.) Geoff not only stripped them of any semblance of wisdom, he made them responsible for acts that seemed pretty unambiguously evil, and we're not talking individual renegades, but as an organization. And, even worse, he retconned it so that they were ALWAYS this way, back to their early history. Had he simply had them go wrong in the present, in response to some extraordinary circumstance, their fall, while regrettable, would not have cancelled out their history of generally benevolent guidance. But no, he took pains to "reveal" that the Guardians have been responsible for really questionable stuff back to their earliest days.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:12 PM   #52
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With respect, I don't think that claim can be made due to thier actions during ET. No one is allwoed to play god and bring people back from the dead. Now here to stop you is Sinestro,mass murderer whic we just brought back from the dead.
On this point specifically, I don't think it is at all clear that Sinestro was truly "dead" at that point at all. He had already returned TWICE by then, once in Mosaic, and once in Guy Gardner Reborn. Sure, he was a disembodied "spirit" that only was able to act through control of others' bodies, but he was still around. The Guardians decision to tap Sinestro as their final line of defense, while deeply stupid for multiple reasons (and this is one of my MAJOR beefs with ET, the stupidity of the Guardians in making this choice), was not really a true "resurrection", since he was never really "gone".
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:13 PM   #53
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Something similar that Geoff did was that when he killed Jack T. Chance, he let him know beforehand what a shitty Lantern he was. It's clear he takes the trouble to set it up so that the changes he makes are "necessary" and should never be undone.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:42 PM   #54
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Well my friend I will agree to disagree. Bringing a mass murderer back from the dead. Giving him the most powerful weapon in the universe,and trying to get him to kill a guy who has saved the universe on countless occasion,seems pretty evil to me.

It is a tired old song and dance to me.The Guardians being no verry Guardian like. They were pretty bad under Denny's run,and would do some pretty bad thing during the 80's. ET is just the Crowning achievement.

I miss the Guardians being the oldest wisest most powerful beings in the universe. it gave Green Lanterns some validation. However. Saddly it was rare to see them be that way. Wich often caused Hal to butt heads with them.

But enough of the history lesson. In my opinion it is a far worse crime as a writter to rehash a bad idea. The character should be moving forward.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:14 PM   #55
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I miss the Guardians being the oldest wisest most powerful beings in the universe. it gave Green Lanterns some validation.
On this we can heartily agree. I would even go so far that such Guardians are actually NEEDED for something like the Corps to be even practical.


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Saddly it was rare to see them be that way. Wich often caused Hal to butt heads with them.
Here, I have to disagree. For the vast majority of the Guardian's comics career, I think they were depicted as wise and powerful. Even when Hal butted heads with them, it wasn't because they were WRONG, per se, but because they were somewhat callous, or insensitive to the day to day concerns of mere mortals. Take the Third Law storyline. Hal certainly butted heads with the Guardians there, yet it was still shown that, in terms of the big picture, they were acting in the best interests of the universe as a whole. They just didn't feel the need to justify or explain themselves. That's arrogant, sure, but not necessarily wrong.

I don't need the Guardians to be infallible, really, but they are supposed to be wiser, more knowledgeable, and more competent than those they are commanding (and the reader, too) IMHO. When the Guardians make a mistake, I shouldn't feel like only an idiot would make it, and I would do better. I guess that began with ET, for me, but at that point it was part of a rushed mandate to get rid of them, so I guess it didn't surprise me, even as I was disappointed.

And the Guardians should ALWAYS, even when they are making a mistake, seem like they are benevolent in their intent, IMHO. I want Guardians like that back again. I thought we might be getting that in New Guardians, but now, even though it doesn't seem to me like the Templar Guardians have really done anything truly wrong, the way it is being written, I feel like I am SUPPOSED to be disgusted and disappointed in them, and that doesn't bode well, IMHO.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:28 PM   #56
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I don't think me and you are going to see eye to eye on this. I get that you fell that there is a line between Evil and just plain poor desicion making. I have to say it goes deeper then that. Sure you can justfy it by saying the Guardians never appeared to act malicious,and thus they get a pass of being stupid but not evil. I say that they can not act with malous because they are the Gurdians and they are supposed to be without emotions,pre Goeff days.

In this frame of thinking you give Johns and unintentnal pass for what he does. His Gurdians are the first to act with Malice,but it is only because his Guardians supress emotions instead of not having them like in the past.

Agreed yes sometimes when Hal butted heads with the Guardians it was because they were insenstive,but somet imes it was also the Guardians being Evil/Stupid.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:33 PM   #57
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Agreed yes sometimes when Hal butted heads with the Guardians it was because they were insenstive,but somet imes it was also the Guardians being Evil/Stupid.
I'm going to need an example of this, pre-Geoff. I'm honestly not recalling Hal butting heads with the Guardians because they were evil any time before Geoff decided to do his hatchet job on them.

(And it occurs to me that we may not even disagree on him doing that hatchet job. Looking back over some of your statements, it seems like while you don't think what he did was beyond the pale of what HAD been done with the Guardians, you definitely aren't a fan of the way he portrayed them.)
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:37 PM   #58
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The most interesting thing I'm getting out of this discussion is that, whatever differences we may have on how various people HAVE portrayed the Guardians, we BOTH seem to be on the same page as far as how we WISH they were being portrayed.

So I'll be happy to go into my Christmas break (where I'll likely be on here far less) focused mainly on that common ground.
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Old 12-23-2014, 11:40 PM   #59
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If you're going to write Green Lantern, you ought to keep the Guardians but get them off the stage. They should be ascended masters who have retained some semblance of biological life in order to help less evolved but sentient life forms through law enforcement, and the Central Power Battery should serve as their interface with the material universe. The Lanterns should occasionally get alerts and advice about emergencies from the CPB, but usually they should be on their own.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:28 AM   #60
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It's hard to believe there was a actually a time when Hal used to say "by the Guardians" as a positive expletive.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:10 AM   #61
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It's hard to believe there was a actually a time when Hal used to say "by the Guardians" as a positive expletive.
Yeah, they were "great Guardians." Check out GL #30, "Once A Green Lantern..." I quote: "Praise from the Guardians...that's worth ANY effort!"

I reiterate. Watch for another re-boot. It's coming.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:01 PM   #62
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That would be amazing.
Well to get him back you'd need to get rid of Harras, Didio and possibly Lee too depending on if his relationship with Waid also deteriorated badly.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:27 PM   #63
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Green Lantern is just not Green Lantern without the Guardians.

I personally feel that Didio was the driving force behind all the events. Lee being a driving force behind the Nu52,makes me want to see him move on from the DCU.
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Old 12-25-2014, 06:13 PM   #64
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Green Lantern is just not Green Lantern without the Guardians.

I personally feel that Didio was the driving force behind all the events. Lee being a driving force behind the Nu52,makes me want to see him move on from the DCU.
If we're talking about the Green Lantern events then I can't see how you can give Johns the majority of the blame there...seriously how can he not be the driving force behind them?

As for the New 52, that was all on Didio.
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:29 PM   #65
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Well to get him back you'd need to get rid of Harras, Didio and possibly Lee too depending on if his relationship with Waid also deteriorated badly.
And that would be MORE than fine with me.

Didio 2005 to about 2009 was great, after that not so much. I have no use for the other two in the industry at all.
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Old 12-25-2014, 09:33 PM   #66
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Well obviously it would be fine but it ain't happening.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:05 AM   #67
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If we're talking about the Green Lantern events then I can't see how you can give Johns the majority of the blame there...seriously how can he not be the driving force behind them?

As for the New 52, that was all on Didio.
Because Goeff said he always planned on doing 3 events. That they were going to be like the Star Wars trilogy. Then all of a sudden all these other Green Lantren events happen.

My theroy is that was his plan,but with How Crazy sucessful Rebirth and Sinestro Corps Wars was someone at a the top wanted more and more until the Green Lantern tree stopped giving.

Honestly no one has come forth and taken credit for that crap sandwich,and why would they? Those people or person played a big part of screwing up Green Lantern when it was at it's top.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:55 PM   #68
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Guys, lighten up. Johns is a facilitator of the DC universe, and what the hell's the matter with that?
Because despite a strong beginning, Geoff single-handedly Parallaxed the GL franchise into a nosedive of never-ending event mode. We won't talk about the 10-15 splash or double-splash pages he'd waste in his comics, the never-ending cliffhangers, the retcons of retcons (even his own)...

Also famously failed at shepherding the GL movie. I don't know how he's still (allowed to be) working at the capacity and level he is.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:17 PM   #69
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:00 PM   #70
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And an oldie but goodie:

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Old 02-12-2015, 09:14 PM   #71
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To be fair Johns did alot of good things early in his GL run. I loved how in the beginning he used pre existing continuity and kept all his retcons in check.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:28 PM   #72
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To be fair Johns did alot of good things early in his GL run. I loved how in the beginning he used pre existing continuity and kept all his retcons in check.
Sticking point being "early". We were all worshipping at his altar back then. God I miss those days!
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:39 PM   #73
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To be fair Johns did alot of good things early in his GL run. I loved how in the beginning he used pre existing continuity and kept all his retcons in check.
He did great work while editorial still had the balls to rein him in. As soon as he became the untouchable golden boy, though...

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Old 02-12-2015, 09:47 PM   #74
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That would have been so much better if it said retcon ball
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:01 PM   #75
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He did great work while editorial still had the balls to rein him in. As soon as he became the untouchable golden boy, though...

THAT is awesome!

Is that from the Ron Jeremy video?
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