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Old 03-22-2014, 05:03 AM   #51
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See, this is what I object to. People proclaiming with complete confidence that you "hate Geoff Johns" because you think that he went south after the Sinestro Corps War. That judgmental mind-reading is just ridiculous, and it's what causes ill will and flame wars.

Did he do more damage than good? So far, no. But if this all ends up with just Green Lantern and the GLC still afloat, and with a GL movie to his credit that was so bad that another one won't get made, then he's not going to leave the enormous legacy that people were once so confident that he would.
Johns involvement with the GL movie was minimum at best. WB only gave him as much as they wanted him to.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:10 PM   #52
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The movie was based on his heavy retconning of GL history, with some added rewrites thrown in.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:32 PM   #53
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The movie was based on his heavy retconning of GL history, with some added rewrites thrown in.
That's true. The writer even said somewhere he wasn't a GL fan so he started reading from vol. 4. I think, like Venditti, he said he picked up so non-Geoff material later, but it centered around his interpretation of the GLCU.

Johns did, however, back off for the details. There's a clip of him touring the studio during production and the design of Parallax (and some other elements) were a complete surprise to him even as the ready-to-go versions.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #54
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The movie was very heavily based on Geoff's rewriting of the GL mythos. The writers showed essentially no familiarity with what earlier writers had done.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:08 AM   #55
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good god how did we go from being happy that Larfleeze is getting canceled to hating on GJ to now talking about how they f@cked up the GL movie?
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:21 AM   #56
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The movie was very heavily based on Geoff's rewriting of the GL mythos. The writers showed essentially no familiarity with what earlier writers had done.
It really, really wasn't. The last thing that Geoff would ever do is have Hal quit the GLC out of fear and crawl back to Earth with his tail tucked between his glowing legs. The GL movie didn't meet expectations because Warner Bumbles tried to pander to the GA sheeple instead of trusting the comic book mythos.


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good god how did we go from being happy that Larfleeze is getting canceled to hating on GJ to now talking about how they f@cked up the GL movie?
Personally, I never miss a chance to flame Warner Bumbles for their awful track record with DC Comics' properties.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #57
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It really, really wasn't. The last thing that Geoff would ever do is have Hal quit the GLC out of fear and crawl back to Earth with his tail tucked between his glowing legs. The GL movie didn't meet expectations because Warner Bumbles tried to pander to the GA sheeple instead of trusting the comic book mythos.




Personally, I never miss a chance to flame Warner Bumbles for their awful track record with DC Comics' properties.
Sir... this was not the John Broome GL, or the Marv Wolfman GL, or the Len Wein GL, or Denny O'Neil GL, or the Steve Englehart GL, or the Gerard Jones GL. No, this was the Geoff Johns GL, and nothing but

Now you can say with your total confidence there that Geoff wouldn't have made Hal do this or that, but Geoff is also known to have to defined greatness -- bizarrely, I think -- as the overcoming of fear. So it's not such a stretch to think Geoff would like that idea.

In any case though, if Geoff had never written GL, this movie would have been nothing at all like the way it was. The writers obviously knew nothing about GL except what had gotten filtered through the movie's co-producer, Geoff Johns.

So stop covering for him here. This was his baby and every paternity test confirms it.

Success always has a thousand fathers, and failure is always an orphan.

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Old 03-23-2014, 02:49 PM   #58
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IonFan, I'm not happy that a GL title was canceled. Especially when so few people recognize that the whole problem is the emotional spectrum.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:44 PM   #59
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well i for one disagree, i liked the emotional spectrum (all the new characters, all the fights, all the wars), i liked what GJ did to bring new life into GL (after all when he left i left), i liked the GL movie (not for what it was just that it wasn't as bad as it could of been), and i like the fact that the Larfleeze comic is gone (we all know a joke only goes so far)
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:56 PM   #60
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well i for one disagree, i liked the emotional spectrum (all the new characters, all the fights, all the wars)
All the new characters, all the fights, and all the wars were extremely redundant, in my opinion. Johns really dumbed down the whole Green Lantern universe by essentially making it all about people with rings who fight eachother with colored shapes and lasers.

This is completely anecdotal, I understand, but I was talking about cartoons with a kid who was probably about 9, and I asked him if he liked Green Lantern. He told me he did not and I asked him why. His words --which I don't think I'll ever forget-- were, "It's just a bunch of rings." When I thought about it, I was like, "yeah, that's all it is about. A bunch of different colored rings."

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Old 03-23-2014, 11:58 PM   #61
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So back to what Dave said on page one. YES. The "spectrum" was a sort of neat writing idea, and those writing it ran out of steam. Cut off access to "it" except for will, because will never was an emotion...yellow, because it's from Qward, and was the original "weakness" of the yellow rings...sapphire, which came from an entirely different power source (better yet, bench Carol and the Zamarons for too many technical fouls)...and let Atrocitus draw power from the Children of the White Lobe, for all I care. Don't retcon. It's not a retcon to move forward to a new set of plot elements. Garb the Guardians in saffron or scarlet, doesn't matter. Kyle's fate is the one wild card here, and perhaps he could even be the catalyst. If the "white" is the embodiment of the entire "spectrum," blow the white, return him to green, and move on.

Goodbye, Larfleeze. We'll strand you in the Vega system with a jar of noodles on your head.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Spy Smasher View Post
Sir... this was not the John Broome GL, or the Marv Wolfman GL, or the Len Wein GL, or Denny O'Neil GL, or the Steve Englehart GL, or the Gerard Jones GL. No, this was the Geoff Johns GL, and nothing but

So stop covering for him here. This was his baby and every paternity test confirms it.

Success always has a thousand fathers, and failure is always an orphan.
Nope, this was Warner Bumbles "GL". The Johns' Hal Jordan who overcame the yellow impurity to the amazement of Sinestro and killed Krona is not the same as the "Hal" that was paralyzed with fear in the cockpit of his plane and later crawled away like an abused puppy after Sinestro schooled him.

This was the construct of studio execs using templates from other media and hijacking the mythos in the middle of the movie. Instead of spending time on developing the numerous Lanterns in the Corps and Hal's place among them, Warner Bumbles gave us a protracted love story and Hector's daddy issues to appeal to the GA sheeple who might have been confused by a more complex story.

Don't take this as an indictment of the movie; it really wasn't that bad. The problem is that GL was handled by the same studio that had to reboot Batman and Superman after lackluster outings. Warner Bumbles had just enough of the GL mythos in the movie to make it viable, but they gave us a nice snack instead of an exquisite meal. Had GL been Johns' baby, we'd be talking about it having its 2nd sibling now.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:22 AM   #63
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Geoff Johns did not write the GL movie, 4 other guys did that. So as far as I'm concerned, Johns is not to blame for the movies failures. From what I've read and heard the only major changes Geoff made to the script was changing Legion to Parallax and swapping Alan Scott for Amanda Waller. If anything I bet if he was more involved the movie probably would've been better.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:09 PM   #64
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Stop, stop it, stop it. Geoff CO-PRODUCED the movie and the four people who wrote it knew nothing about GL except what Geoff had written. If the movie had made a lot of money, his fans would be laying it all at his feet.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:15 PM   #65
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All the new characters, all the fights, and all the wars were extremely redundant, in my opinion. Johns really dumbed down the whole Green Lantern universe by essentially making it all about people with rings who fight eachother with colored shapes and lasers.

This is completely anecdotal, I understand, but I was talking about cartoons with a kid who was probably about 9, and I asked him if he liked Green Lantern. He told me he did not and I asked him why. His words --which I don't think I'll ever forget-- were, "It's just a bunch of rings." When I thought about it, I was like, "yeah, that's all it is about. A bunch of different colored rings."
I once asked a guy why he didn't read GL, and he said, "The ring constructs are stupid." I reported that on the old DC GL board, and of course the fanboys went wild with moral indignation.

And you make an interesting point there. The fact that Lanterns now just fight EACH OTHER has gotten seriously old. It's passed its sell-by date and is smelling very bad. That stuff needs to go.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:16 PM   #66
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I don't think it was entirely on Johns, though I think he had more of a say than a lot of people think. I thought the problem with Green Lantern was pretty apparent. There were too many voices thrown into the mix. Unlike Nolan's take on Batman, love it or hate it, there was a single direction for the franchise. Green Lantern felt like there were multiples movies wrapped into one, with too many themes, characters, and plots to be interesting. I thought the same thing for the visual effects too. They seemed lost on how to make a kick ass ring wielding super-hero.

Hopefully they've learned their lesson, but who knows. I thought Man of Steel had a pretty cohesive direction behind it, again you can love it or hate it, but it didn't have the feeling of too many hands being in the pot.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:34 PM   #67
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The fact that Lanterns now just fight EACH OTHER has gotten seriously old. It's passed its sell-by date and is smelling very bad. That stuff needs to go.
This has been a sore point for me for a long time as well. That has been a real problem for the franchise. And now that the current writers are trying to give the GL's something to shoot at other than OTHER people with rings? I feel like I should feel guilty for not liking it on the sole basis that on paper, they are now GIVING me what I've been bitching for. It's the execution that's currently the problem, not the plan on paper.

But I certainly don't want to go back to lanterns shooting at other lanterns ever again.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:41 PM   #68
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Don't forget: some Durlans have rings. So the Lanterns will still be fighting other ring-wielders.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:50 PM   #69
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If Geoff had time, he would have had the GLC face off against the Legion in a time travel story. And being a teenager would have been an emotion on the emotional spectrum.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:57 PM   #70
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LOL! Aren't teenagers emotional? It kind of works. We can give them the color brown on the emotional spectrum for being whiny little shits.

Regarding Larfleeze, I'm shocked it took this long. I bought the first issue and never read it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:19 PM   #71
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LOL! Aren't teenagers emotional? It kind of works. We can give them the color brown on the emotional spectrum for being whiny little shits.

Regarding Larfleeze, I'm shocked it took this long. I bought the first issue and never read it.
In retrospect, I can't believe Johns never DID that with the Legion. It's not like it's past him to do something so trite and cheesy. They have rings! And emotions! It practically writes itself!

If you never read the issue you bought...don't bother. You aren't missing anything.

The sad thing is, as soon as LF is gone, we'll STILL be at FIVE Green Lantern titles.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:40 PM   #72
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Well, teenagers do have different emotions than adults do. So I'm just glad he never thought of it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:42 AM   #73
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LOL! Aren't teenagers emotional? It kind of works. We can give them the color brown on the emotional spectrum for being whiny little shits.
Regarding Larfleeze, I'm shocked it took this long. I bought the first issue and never read it.
I'm really surprised that we never got a Gray Lantern Corps that looked emo-ish and wielded depression as a weapon. I'm not joking, that seemed like an inevitability to me a couple of years ago. Although if it centered around teens/kid characters, I'm glad it never materialized. DC has too many pre-existing characters like that as is.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:36 PM   #74
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I'm really surprised that we never got a Gray Lantern Corps that looked emo-ish and wielded depression as a weapon. I'm not joking, that seemed like an inevitability to me a couple of years ago. Although if it centered around teens/kid characters, I'm glad it never materialized. DC has too many pre-existing characters like that as is.
Well the book we're talking about (Larfleeze) does currently have a character who's the embodiment of all despair and depression.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:45 PM   #75
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Well the book we're talking about (Larfleeze) does currently have a character who's the embodiment of all despair and depression.
Kristen Stewart?
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