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Old 12-21-2011, 09:18 PM   #26
TazzMission
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See, I see that as kind of a big logical leap to make. I agree that such things have potential for abuse, and need to be VERY carefully worded, but those particular examples are exactly the sort of things such laws are designed for, not an example of possible abuse and unintended consequences.

I suspect that most citizens aren't opposed to the idea of blocking sites whose whole purpose is to help you download free content illegally.

The danger that must be emphasized if one wants to get the Average Joe to oppose these kinds of things is the possibility of abusing the law to shut down sites just because you don't like them.

However, that said, while I agree that such extreme cases ARE possible, and are a reason to make SURE any such legislation is carefully worded and NARROW in focus, I also think that it is highly unlikely that the passage of such legislation, even if NOT carefully crafted, is going to lead to some kind of massive crackdown on the internet. Why? Because even the people not convinced of the danger ahead of time will ABSOLUTELY scream bloody murder if such things actually happen, and it isn't like they are putting this stuff in as Constitutional Amendments. All it will take to change it is Congress passing NEW legislation. Which they absolutely WILL do if their constituents are calling them all pissed off because all the social media sites have been shut down arbitrarily, or somesuch.

the problem is they say its for copyrighted material like napster, lime wire etc.


but in the end one thing like this will lead to other excuses to continue blocking things that they ( government) will not like wich would be critisizim.

we live in a country where we have the right to speak out and this kind of bill could honestly take that away from us.

wile i agree that yea there are indeed bad people out there who promote nothing but hate like the neo nazis that threatened obamas life.

but we all shouldnt have to suffer from it because some backwoods hicks want to continue there nazi propaganda bull shit
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:27 PM   #27
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That's horseshit and we both know it. As soon as people read what was in the Patriot Act they were skeptical, but it was passed at a time where people were uptight over terrorist threats.

Once cooler heads prevailed people spoke out, including our current President, and yet it keeps getting extended.

The point is that assuming that constitution violations will be addressed through the court system is bullshit....especially when the constitutional right being violated is the 4th.

I don't want to get going on the Patriot Act, it's just an example of how you need to speak out before laws get made. It's easier to pass laws than it is to get them thrown out.
But I still maintain that the reason for that is that those "cooler heads" and those speaking out against it STILL are not in the majority. And even those who might be against it if pressed don't bother to make their views known because it doesn't really effect them personally (or so they think, I would assert that it DOES, just not in the really overt ways that it effects some people). They did too good a job of scaring people into its necessity, and now, even when people aren't as scared, it hasn't hit many of them in such a way that they actually feel strongly about repealing it.

If they pass this, and the nightmare scenarios that its opponents are warning about actually come to pass, it WILL effect a lot of people directly, and nobody will have anything convincing to point to to justify those kinds of results.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is better to keep bad legislation from passing than to try to repeal or override it. I just don't think, in this case, that it will last long if the worst case scenarios being mentioned DO come to pass, since they would adversely effect so MUCH of the electorate, with so little justification.

I'm not proposing that we not oppose these bills. I'm simply saying that, long term I can't see attempts to shut down large swathes of the internet being successful, since it would piss off too many people, and they wouldn't have anything convincing to tell those people to convince them that those kinds of "side effects" of the legislation were somehow necessary.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #28
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the problem is they say its for copyrighted material like napster, lime wire etc.
The problem is that the law ignores due process and allows action taken against people for nothing more than an accusation of copyright violation. It goes further to try and redesign certain key features of how the internet works...specifically DNS. It also allows the accuser to level sanctions against advertisers and ISP's requiring them to monitor their users closely.

I'm less concerned with the ways that the government can abuse the laws for gain and more concerned with how corporations can abuse the laws for gain.

Regardless of whether government uses the law to suppress speech, it's still a bad law simply because it removes legal process from the equation and calls for a radical overhaul of the Dynamic Naming System that in the end won't solve shit.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:40 PM   #29
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But I still maintain that the reason for that is that those "cooler heads" and those speaking out against it STILL are not in the majority.
It's debatable, but as long as it's not a hot button issue, we'll never know.

The Patriot Act is an example, nothing more.

No matter how over the top a law is, people can get used to anything until it becomes the norm. There's a lot of extreme laws that prove this.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:40 AM   #30
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sorry D_A but my "political activism" days are over with, here's hoping cooler heads prevail
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:15 PM   #31
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Small little update.


GoDaddy.com had been directly involved in the writing of the SOPA bill. When this became public knowledge there was a mass exodus of users to other sites. Many of those hosting sites were giving discounts to GoDaddy Users. Among the domains that jumped ship was Failblog.com and ICanHazCheeseburgers.com both of which are owned by the same person. Ben Huh, who created both sites, has pulled them as well as over a thousand other domains hosted at GoDaddy. As of today 12/25/11 more than 37,000 domains have been transferred away from GoDaddy.com.

GoDaddy released a public statement late Friday stating they were withdrawing their support of the SOPA bill. However it has yet to do so on official congressional record. And it's still in support of the Protect IP Act which is the senate version of SOPA which has the same things wrong with it that I and others have been talking about for the past few weeks.

A full list of companies that support SOPA and PIPA (Protect IP Act) Can be found here.

http://images.politico.com/global/20...supporters.pdf

Lets keep the pressure up, and stop these tools of censorship and oppression from becoming law.






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Old 12-26-2011, 10:27 PM   #32
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Yo.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


^^^ I *love* this clip........




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Old 12-29-2011, 01:13 PM   #33
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New session opens in January. Think this died in committee. Watch for its reincarnation.

Better yet, don't plagiarize, then you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:54 PM   #34
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Better yet, don't plagiarize, then you have nothing to worry about.
I think you mean don't pirate.....the problem is so vague and widespread that it's implementation can and WILL affect everyone.

Especially when they go monkeying around with DNS. You know what DNS is right?
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:08 PM   #35
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New session opens in January. Think this died in committee. Watch for its reincarnation.

Better yet, don't plagiarize, then you have nothing to worry about.
It didn't die in committee. The hearings were put on hold for the holiday break that's all. They resume January 11th.




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Old 12-29-2011, 09:17 PM   #36
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:21 PM   #37
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
You would be!
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:42 PM   #38
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Yo.

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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
man, FUCK YURROPE!! Im concerned more concerned about my ability to d/l pr0n & android proggies w/o payin' for'em dammit............

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Old 12-29-2011, 09:45 PM   #39
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
If this bill goes into effect it will make it worse. Because SOPA allows companies to basically troll their competition. If there is a product on a company's site that another company decides they don't like, and can come up with a flimsy excuse to claim copyright on. They can slap a claim on that site and force it to be closed with out appeal.

Much like what Apple has been doing in court with it's suits against the Galaxy tablets. But with SOPA they would never need to go to court they could have the companies web sites closed with no recourse for the effected company.

So you should be concerned by this. Because while it is a American law its effect WILL be world wide.





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Old 12-29-2011, 10:56 PM   #40
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If this bill goes into effect it will make it worse. Because SOPA allows companies to basically troll their competition. If there is a product on a company's site that another company decides they don't like, and can come up with a flimsy excuse to claim copyright on. They can slap a claim on that site and force it to be closed with out appeal.

Much like what Apple has been doing in court with it's suits against the Galaxy tablets. But with SOPA they would never need to go to court they could have the companies web sites closed with no recourse for the effected company.

So you should be concerned by this. Because while it is a American law its effect WILL be world wide.


Darth_Andrea
I dont think you understand how bad it is, here, and SOPA has nothing to do with that law. Its more due to the ECB, the Euro and the (lack of) centralization of European fiscal policy and what would happen if the European Union, one of the powerful economic blocks of the XXI fell. SOPA would affect nothing. Its more of if Europe goes down, the US will go down with.

So its you who should be concerned about whats going in Europe.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:41 PM   #41
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
*Cough, cough*



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Old 12-30-2011, 01:54 AM   #42
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
Wait a minute there is a crisis in Europe? that's news to be. :P
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:59 AM   #43
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Interesting, bur right now Im more concerned with the economic crisis in Europe.
to that i say
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:27 AM   #44
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If this bill goes into effect it will make it worse. Because SOPA allows companies to basically troll their competition. If there is a product on a company's site that another company decides they don't like, and can come up with a flimsy excuse to claim copyright on. They can slap a claim on that site and force it to be closed with out appeal.

Much like what Apple has been doing in court with it's suits against the Galaxy tablets. But with SOPA they would never need to go to court they could have the companies web sites closed with no recourse for the effected company.

So you should be concerned by this. Because while it is a American law its effect WILL be world wide.







Darth_Andrea

well i better get this in before a certain mod decides to censor me again...

andy you do understand when this passes alot of your stuff online will be affected like private emails and online payments right?


they say its for illegal downloading but thats a load of horse shit
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:46 AM   #45
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well i better get this in before a certain mod decides to censor me again...

andy you do understand when this passes alot of your stuff online will be affected like private emails and online payments right?


they say its for illegal downloading but thats a load of horse shit
I have read SOPA and haven't seen anything in it to effect Email or my online banking. It will however shut sites like this one down. Any Fan Site or a site that has User Created Content could easily fall with a simple copyright claim sent to it's hosting service.




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Old 12-30-2011, 04:54 AM   #46
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I have read SOPA and haven't seen anything in it to effect Email or my online banking. It will however shut sites like this one down. Any Fan Site or a site that has User Created Content could easily fall with a simple copyright claim sent to it's hosting service.




Darth_Andrea

the issue is they say its for fansites and what not but in the end there going to use some excuse like child predators or id theft to continue this program.


allways remeber that each bill usually hides something and for all we know this could be in there.

i think and i may be wrong but im pretty sure people are more worried about the housing market, jobs, and economy instead of the internet.

if people really think about it the only reason this will be passed is to censor peoples anti w/e party blogs because the internet is the way to do it. if you do it on the streets you get arrested get called un american or a racist.

just because its going to start with something like this dosent mean it wont go even further.

and im sorry calling a congressman and complain wont do jack because the people who lobby for this bill pay them a nice chunk of cash to push it through.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #47
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Yo.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...-blackout-net/

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Will Google, Amazon, and Facebook Black Out the Net?



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Old 12-30-2011, 07:03 PM   #48
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Good Article though the headline is highly misleading and inflammatory.

They aren't going to shut down the net. Just black out their own sites as a protest and call to arms to their users.






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Old 12-30-2011, 07:05 PM   #49
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Good Article though the headline is highly misleading and inflammatory.

They aren't going to shut down the net. Just black out their own sites as a protest and call to arms to their users.








Darth_Andrea


did you read about the internet kill switch?


look into that and let me know what you think


ps. be carefull with threads like these because kuhan has a major hard on for qward type threads in the general discussion and he has closed a few of mine down allready
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:15 PM   #50
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here you go andy

http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/01/kill-switch/
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