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View Poll Results: Flash: Rebirth #1
* 3 6.98%
** 0 0%
*** 5 11.63%
**** 19 44.19%
***** 16 37.21%
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:42 AM   #51
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Be real. You can't answer the question. I do have my mind made up, people don't have conversations to change people's minds they do it to discuss. That was the point of asking you to define Barry's personality...So, again, I'll ask you to define Barry's personality...or anyone, define Barry's personality. And stop bringing up Hal and Kyle arguments this is not the same, and not what we're discussing.
So you're asking me to waste time describing something that you disagree with yeah that isn't going to happen. Like I said before I've gone through the same bs with the Kyle fans they rant and rave and spout falsehoods about Hal and his character and in the end nothing changes. It's a waste of time and effort something that i've tried to stop doing as the years go by.

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How am I not a REAL Flash fan? Because I'd rather have better writing on the title than the return of the most iconic death in comics? I can't have a favorite? Also, "ranting", its apart of discussion. If I have a lot to say, then why hold back?.
You used the term REAL Flash fan to seperate yourself from other Flash fans, i'm simply calling you out on that fact. You are no more a real Flash fan than anybody else who likes the characters, it sounds ridiculous and silly for you to claim it. You want to have a discussion with me on any subject i'm game, but getting all hot and angry only hurts that objective and doesn't help anything.

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But you didn't prove me wrong. Booster Gold hadn't had a series since the 80s! He took a character most people reading comics either didn't care for or didn't know at all, and made him sell! He has "the touch" lol.
You made a blatant and wrong generalization about Geoff being able to make anything a success and I proved you wrong nothing more. It's ok to admit there are exceptions to the rule but getting cute about it again doesn't help out anybody.

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No. Its not Geoff's master plan, but its Didio's own words that seem to imply that they were trying to bring back Barry Allen when Flash was still at prime book/series. He(Didio) wanted to bring him back BEFORE Infinite Crisis when The Flash was doing very well critically and financially.
Ok let's go with your theory, Wally disapears then Bart fails and Wally gets brought back with Lightning Saga. After this Waid gets signed back on Flash and everything is right in the Flash (Wally version) World what went wrong then?. Where did all the fans go that loved Wally, refused to accept Bart as Flash and raved about Waid coming back?. I find it hard to believe that after all these years fans in droves would desert Wally and his book, there had to be more to it. Wally and his fans got more than a chance to make things work and if you want to blame anyone for Barry being back, blame the same fans that rant and rave about Wally yet deserted his book like the plaque.

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Bottom line, if Geoff Johns himself, the guy who wrote 60 issues of Wally West claims that he is nothing but a wannabe, that gives me enough reason to be nervous. I don't have a problem with Geoff, and certainly not a fictitious character in Barry Allen, but I do have a problem with people saying Barry's return was necessary. If Wally worked before without Barry(for 20+ years) then the series can certainly be written to that level again. And of course, I have nothing against you either,btw. I'm sure you're fine with the adage of 'agree to disagree'.
Well again you may believe that everything was right in the world without Barry and that Wally more than filled in his spot. I and others disagree with you and have seen Wally as nothing more than a placeholder until Barry came back but to each their own. But to me Geoff has done nothing but show Wally respect and built him up to be a successfull character, so for you to try and spin it back on him to me is just wrong.

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And fanboy is the most redundant and idiotic term ever. Please don't use it to insult me, or describe me again.
Fair enough.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:35 AM   #52
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So you're asking me to waste time describing something that you disagree with yeah that isn't going to happen. Like I said before I've gone through the same bs with the Kyle fans they rant and rave and spout falsehoods about Hal and his character and in the end nothing changes. It's a waste of time and effort something that i've tried to stop doing as the years go by.
Its okay, I would be tired of trying to describe something that doesn't exist as well.

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Originally Posted by Raker616
You used the term REAL Flash fan to seperate yourself from other Flash fans, i'm simply calling you out on that fact. You are no more a real Flash fan than anybody else who likes the characters, it sounds ridiculous and silly for you to claim it. You want to have a discussion with me on any subject i'm game, but getting all hot and angry only hurts that objective and doesn't help anything.
Maybe you didn't understand what you read. I said it to imply that a TRUE Flash fan would stick with the comic through the tough times..

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You made a blatant and wrong generalization about Geoff being able to make anything a success and I proved you wrong nothing more. It's ok to admit there are exceptions to the rule but getting cute about it again doesn't help out anybody.
HOW AM I WRONG?! Are you honestly saying that Booster Gold wasn't a success? Seriously?

Jan08- 36,263
Feb08- 37,784 (More than Flash, and JUST under Superman)
Mar08- 36,129 (Still a top #50 book)
Apr08- 35,974
May08- 35,020

How is this not a success? Its outselling a poorly written series in The Flash, outselling Marvel's Iron Man, outselling Nightwing,Robin, Supergirl, all characters that have big plans for this year and have had great critical success. You can take a look around THIS board, I wouldn't had known that the series existed if it wasn't for the people on this site talking about it.



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Originally Posted by Raker616
Ok let's go with your theory, Wally disapears then Bart fails and Wally gets brought back with Lightning Saga. After this Waid gets signed back on Flash and everything is right in the Flash (Wally version) World what went wrong then?. Where did all the fans go that loved Wally, refused to accept Bart as Flash and raved about Waid coming back?. I find it hard to believe that after all these years fans in droves would desert Wally and his book, there had to be more to it. Wally and his fans got more than a chance to make things work and if you want to blame anyone for Barry being back, blame the same fans that rant and rave about Wally yet deserted his book like the plaque.
Thats what happens when there is bad writing and no clear direction on a title. You would know that if you had been reading, but you obviously haven't been. Maybe fans were tired of being shafted of a Flash every 6months? The Wally West that Mark Waid was known for writing, the one I love, the one you would know best if you've been reading a Flash comic in the past 23 or so years! It isn't the same background as the Lightning Rod riding West family. Waid has said time and time again that he was told to make the West family into the Incredibles, and thats not The Flash, I love. So of course sales went down..



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Well again you may believe that everything was right in the world without Barry and that Wally more than filled in his spot. I and others disagree with you and have seen Wally as nothing more than a placeholder until Barry came back but to each their own. But to me Geoff has done nothing but show Wally respect and built him up to be a successfull character, so for you to try and spin it back on him to me is just wrong.
Apparently I'm not the only one who see's Wally as more than just a sidekick, because if he was then his hero would have HAD to return by now. Geoff did a fantastic job writing Wally, but since then...or rather since the announcement of Flash:Rebirth, he has done nothing to ease the thoughts of Wally fans and everything to make us nervous. And on April 1st, 09 we'll see the start of how he truly feels.
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:14 PM   #53
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heres the solict for FLASH REBIRTH-

Through the decades, many heroes have taken the mantle of The Flash, but they all ride the lightning that crackles in the wake of the greatest hero the DC Universe has ever known, the man who sacrificed himself to save the Multiverse: Barry Allen!

Following the events of Final Crisis, Barry has beaten death and returned to a fast-paced world that a man out of time wouldn’t recognize. Or is it a world that is only just now catching up? All the running he’s done before was just a warmup for the high-speed race that he and every other Flash must now run, because even though one speedster might have beaten death, another has just turned up dead! From Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver, the visionaries responsible for the blockbuster Green Lantern: Rebirth and The Sinestro Corps War, comes the start of an explosive and jaw-dropping epic that will reintroduce to the modern age the hero who single-handedly birthed the Silver Age of comics! DC history will be made, and the Flash legacy will be redefined!


I'm excited, to just see the interaction amongst the characters for one thing
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:15 PM   #54
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http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/...ead.php?t=6106
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:47 PM   #55
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yep thats for the solict thread for ALL dc comics for the month of april.

flash rebirth thread -flash solict for rebirth.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:41 PM   #56
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I didn't post it to undermine your post, I posted it for everyone peeking into this thread can see that thread, and the bit you left out.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:58 PM   #57
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Its okay, I would be tired of trying to describe something that doesn't exist as well.
Again that's cute but a complete was of time, something which i'm trying to avoid for the new year.

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Maybe you didn't understand what you read. I said it to imply that a TRUE Flash fan would stick with the comic through the tough times.
To me it sounded like you were putting yourself on another level than regular Flash fans and sounded very egotistical on your part but I could be wrong so if I am my bad.

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HOW AM I WRONG?! Are you honestly saying that Booster Gold wasn't a success? Seriously?

Jan08- 36,263
Feb08- 37,784 (More than Flash, and JUST under Superman)
Mar08- 36,129 (Still a top #50 book)
Apr08- 35,974
May08- 35,020

How is this not a success? Its outselling a poorly written series in The Flash, outselling Marvel's Iron Man, outselling Nightwing,Robin, Supergirl, all characters that have big plans for this year and have had great critical success. You can take a look around THIS board, I wouldn't had known that the series existed if it wasn't for the people on this site talking about it...
Those numbers are nice if it was written by anybody else but Geoff Johns, as much as I like Geoff and Booster this series did nothing for me and will probably join BB and others on the chopping block in about a year.

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Thats what happens when there is bad writing and no clear direction on a title. You would know that if you had been reading, but you obviously haven't been. Maybe fans were tired of being shafted of a Flash every 6months? The Wally West that Mark Waid was known for writing, the one I love, the one you would know best if you've been reading a Flash comic in the past 23 or so years! It isn't the same background as the Lightning Rod riding West family. Waid has said time and time again that he was told to make the West family into the Incredibles, and thats not The Flash, I love. So of course sales went down...
Let's see Wally goes away during IC, he then is replaced by Bart the fans bitch and moan about this and Bart gets killed and Wally returns. Then Waid jumps on the title Flash gets it's numbering back and all is right in the world, then almost immediatelly Flash fans deserted the book and now are complaining about Barry coming back. You act like DC didn't give Wally another chance and decided to drop him which is not the truth, they stuck with him alot longer than even with their golden boy Kyle he had more than a shot now it's Barry's turn again.

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Apparently I'm not the only one who see's Wally as more than just a sidekick, because if he was then his hero would have HAD to return by now. Geoff did a fantastic job writing Wally, but since then...or rather since the announcement of Flash:Rebirth, he has done nothing to ease the thoughts of Wally fans and everything to make us nervous. And on April 1st, 09 we'll see the start of how he truly feels.
Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Flash selling about 30k when Geoff first started on Flash?. Those numbers were lower than Kyle during the same time and Wally was not replaced but thrived thanks to Geoff. So again before you go off on a tangent about how bad he's treating Wally, be thankfull that he even wrote him in the first place because at the rate he was going he should've been replaced years ago.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:42 PM   #58
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Those numbers are nice if it was written by anybody else but Geoff Johns, as much as I like Geoff and Booster this series did nothing for me and will probably join BB and others on the chopping block in about a year.
Booster Gold does little for any body! That's the point. Why would expect Trinity numbers from Booster Gold?! Geoff did an outstanding job sales wise with that book. They couldn't have hoped for a better result, that's why(UNLIKE BLUE BEETLE), it WASN'T scrapped. Because it was a financial success with Geoff writing. When 15 issues go by with Jurgens, it probably will get scrapped because the hype around the book has settled. And it was only there in the first place because of Geoff Johns.

And in the time you keep writing these "I won't do it" posts about Barry's personality, you could have written a sentence about Barry's personality. How hard is it to describe a personality? Here look...I'm a charming young man with a lot of will and often tell funny stories which I guess makes me a funny character. Can you do the same for Barry? Can ANYONE do the same for Barry?


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Let's see Wally goes away during IC, he then is replaced by Bart the fans bitch and moan about this and Bart gets killed and Wally returns. Then Waid jumps on the title Flash gets it's numbering back and all is right in the world, then almost immediatelly Flash fans deserted the book and now are complaining about Barry coming back. You act like DC didn't give Wally another chance and decided to drop him which is not the truth, they stuck with him alot longer than even with their golden boy Kyle he had more than a shot now it's Barry's turn again.
Maybe you're not understanding..Maybe you're missing the point I'm trying to make...People loved the idea of Waid returning to write Wally. But not the idea of Waid returning to write Wally and his super-kids.


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Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Flash selling about 30k when Geoff first started on Flash?. Those numbers were lower than Kyle during the same time and Wally was not replaced but thrived thanks to Geoff. So again before you go off on a tangent about how bad he's treating Wally, be thankfull that he even wrote him in the first place because at the rate he was going he should've been replaced years ago.
You know saved Wally being replaced before Geoff came on? GREAT FUCKING STORYTELLING. It was a major critical success, and you would know had you actually been reading it. When Geoff stepped to the plate sales rose because it was a new direction. Check this: Flash Sales

Wally sells, hell even Bart sells. But all fans aren't loyal when it comes to BAD WRITING/DIRECTION. That is what Wally's relaunch suffered from, that is was Bart's run as The Flash suffered from. Not the lack of Barry Allen...and please stop bringing up Kyle Rayner and Hal Jordan! lol They don't play any role in this discussion and hurts your argument. When Barry Allen returns to the limelight with Rebirth, those 6 issues will sell very well, no doubt. But if the storytelling sucks, you better believe that when the The Flash title returns, sales will drop again.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:49 AM   #59
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How hard is it to describe a personality? Can ANYONE do the same for Barry?
Barry. Run. Fast.
See even Hulk can say something about Barry.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:01 AM   #60
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I'm still torn between the idea of Barry Returning. If it was GJ and EVS doing it,i would be skeptical at best. GL: Rebirth is one of my favorite comics of all time. But a big differeance between GL's rebirth was that his fall alienated fans of Hal, and his death redemmed him. So it was great that DC righted those wrongs. With Barry though?He never fell and had a great heroic death.Nothing needs to be set right there.

As for personality? I've heard that he lacked it leading up till his death, but saying that alot of characters used to lack that. When ever he appeared during Geoffs run, he seemed a really cool character. A lightning bolt of hope to save the day. With Geoff writing him, I'm sure he will be given plenty of depth and new stories. But...what drew me to the flash(in the animated justice league show),was that fast attitude, and even though that was Wally,i hope some of that is injected into Barry.

As much as i love Wally West, i feel they had reached the end of his story. He conquered his own personal deamons, grew into a man, lived a "real life", went through hell and back with linda, zoom/twins, and then still carried on fighting before becoming a father. I'd much rather have the twins still as little kids rather than the age they are now. But it didnt happen like that. He will always be "the flash" to me. But all good things must come to an end.

I hope we see more of the black flash/racer during the Barry's run. I love the idea of him having to keep on running. I can't wait for him to interact with all his old friends and rouges. And i'm looking forward to Barry and Hal. The legendary tales me have only happened in Brave and the Bold by Waid, but i'm hoping that there are going to be plenty more created.

As i say, I'm torn betwee.n it. But i can't wait to read it, and a new Flash series
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:42 AM   #61
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Booster Gold does little for any body! That's the point. Why would expect Trinity numbers from Booster Gold?! Geoff did an outstanding job sales wise with that book. They couldn't have hoped for a better result, that's why(UNLIKE BLUE BEETLE), it WASN'T scrapped. Because it was a financial success with Geoff writing. When 15 issues go by with Jurgens, it probably will get scrapped because the hype around the book has settled. And it was only there in the first place because of Geoff Johns. .
I guess I don't see middle of the road books that disapear after 2 years or so as a success but that's just me.

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And in the time you keep writing these "I won't do it" posts about Barry's personality, you could have written a sentence about Barry's personality. How hard is it to describe a personality? Here look...I'm a charming young man with a lot of will and often tell funny stories which I guess makes me a funny character. Can you do the same for Barry? Can ANYONE do the same for Barry?.
I've learned to stay away from exercises in futility specially when right off the bat I know how things will end.

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Maybe you're not understanding..Maybe you're missing the point I'm trying to make...People loved the idea of Waid returning to write Wally. But not the idea of Waid returning to write Wally and his super-kids.
Obviously, but then Waid left and the book lost even more readers so again let's not put the entire blame on Waid here.


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You know saved Wally being replaced before Geoff came on? GREAT FUCKING STORYTELLING. It was a major critical success, and you would know had you actually been reading it. When Geoff stepped to the plate sales rose because it was a new direction. Check this: Flash Sales

Wally sells, hell even Bart sells. But all fans aren't loyal when it comes to BAD WRITING/DIRECTION. That is what Wally's relaunch suffered from, that is was Bart's run as The Flash suffered from. Not the lack of Barry Allen...and please stop bringing up Kyle Rayner and Hal Jordan! lol They don't play any role in this discussion and hurts your argument. When Barry Allen returns to the limelight with Rebirth, those 6 issues will sell very well, no doubt. But if the storytelling sucks, you better believe that when the The Flash title returns, sales will drop again.
Well see to me Wally has had more than a chance to prove that he sells and failed, it's Barry's time now to get the spotlight and a chance to shine again. We'll never agree on any of these points so i'll just leave it here and maybe revisit things around the time that Rebirth ends and see where we stand.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:57 PM   #62
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Well see to me Wally has had more than a chance to prove that he sells and failed, it's Barry's time now to get the spotlight and a chance to shine again. We'll never agree on any of these points so i'll just leave it here and maybe revisit things around the time that Rebirth ends and see where we stand.

I dont agree here.. wally first off wasnt even suppose to be flash.. but it made sense that he take over after barry died.

wally was successful- 20 years of having an ongoing title, not to shabby.. Do I think he failed no... do I think the last year or two of his issues sucked? yeah I do.

but like you said it's barry's turn to shine. And I think the only thing that might hold him back is the fans.. theres a huge age gap. me being older I read both.

but for some wally is all they know, all they cared about.

But wally west is still going to be around. so I'm glad about that- wally west is an fave of mine.

I'm looking foward to rebirth and what comes out of it.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:20 PM   #63
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I think it's for the best not to make the mistake of killing or maiming Jay or Wally. In fact, I'm pretty sure they'll end up bringing back Bart as a teenage Impulse in Rebirth (much like they fixed Guy Gardner in GL:R). From the sounds of it, Wally will still be called the Flash, but with a new costume to make him and Barry look different. And hell, it IS Barry's costume. Jay will have JSA, Barry, innevitably the JLA, and Wally will be in the Titans. Bart will most likely end up in the Legion in Adventure Comics if he does return. Barry will star in the Flash, and I'm sure the other Flashes will pop in and out of the book.

At this rate, I'm fine with it. I grew up as a child with Barry, and my love for him knows no bounds. But I've been with Wally since day one. I'm one of those guys who bought Flash #1 on the shelves in 1987, and stuck with it until the end. I figured I'd get that out of the way just to let you know my Wally/Flash fan credentials in order. As much as I love Wally, they've painted him into a corner that's hard to get out of. They'd litterally have to kill his wife and kids to move on, and nobody really wants Wally to have that grief. More to the point, none of us want to READ a book about a grieving hero for years and years. We got through years of Wally moping around second guessing himself, and trying to live in his uncle's shadow, and I don't want Wally to have the kind of baggage of a dead family. The Flash should be a more positive book, not a dark and gritty one. That's one thing Waid clearly understood and thankfully brought back to the Flash. It's clear the family thing's not working, so there's no point in carrying on with that.

It's like Wally's life has come full circle, and he's at the end of his tale. I think he'd be better served to have a Jack Knight/Starman type of end, where he goes off into retirement with Linda to raise his kids (keeping him out of harm's way). This would free up the creative team to do the stories that could let Flash really let loose, and still leave Wally as an ace in the hole. If need be, an older Wally in his 30s could come back from the 30th century, and tell how his kids have grown up and moved on to join the Legion or something. Linda could come back or not depending on the writer's needs, but it would give Wally a "cooling off" period that would make any changes with him feel believable. And he's still be young for a superhero. You gotta figure, Wally's still in his mid twenties, and ten years worth of offscreen time would only make him about 35, yet his kids would be about 20 with no further aging. And the 30th century is a natural place for Flashes to hang their hats when DC needs them to disappear for a while.

In the meantime, we reintroduce Barry to a whole new generation of readers, and give him a chance. Hell, he was DC's Flash for 29 uninterrupted years, so I think he's got a proven track record!
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:37 PM   #64
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With all due respect, you can't compare Barry's years(Track record) to Wally's. Wally had to go through the 90's aka The Gimmick Era, and he survived. He got past all the bullshit, and deserves to be treated better than a shitty Titans book where they'll show him no respect and the stories will be essentially retarded. And the idea of killing Linda is just plain stupid. Linda has been the best wife in comics...No question. Easily the best relationship in comics. No family has gone through what they've gone through, and if killing off Linda and her kids is a plot point, then that writer has zero talent. The kids may not be the ideal age for great storytelling, and I,myself, would rather seem them unpowered infants again, but there are still stories to tell. That is the beauty of comics. If you have talent, then it will outweigh the negative things holding your story back.
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:02 PM   #65
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Quote:
THE FLASH: REBIRTH #1
Written by Geoff Johns
Art and covers by Ethan Van Sciver
Through the decades, many heroes have taken the mantle of The Flash, but they all ride the lightning that crackles in the wake of the greatest hero the DC Universe has ever known, the man who sacrificed himself to save the Multiverse: Barry Allen!
Following the events of FINAL CRISIS, Barry has beaten death and returned to a fast-paced world that a man out of time wouldn’t recognize. Or is it a world that is only just now catching up? All the running he’s done before was just a warmup for the high-speed race that he and every other Flash must now run, because even though one speedster might have beaten death, another has just turned up dead! From Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver, the visionaries responsible for the blockbuster GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH and THE SINESTRO CORPS WAR, comes the start of an explosive and jaw-dropping epic that will reintroduce to the modern age the hero who single-handedly birthed the Silver Age of comics! DC history will be made, and the Flash legacy will be redefined!
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers. For every 25 copies of the Standard Edition (with a cover by Ethan Van Sciver), retailers may order one copy of the Variant Edition (with a cover by Ethan Van Sciver). Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale April 1 • 1 of 5 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:35 PM   #66
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Still wish Moose was coloring, but I'm glad to have Alex Sinclair on board; very nice work from both him and Van Sciver on that cover.
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:42 PM   #67
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Same here, but that is a very nice cover I must say.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:00 PM   #68
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To be honest I expected more, but the cover isn't what I care about anyway.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:05 PM   #69
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With all due respect, you can't compare Barry's years(Track record) to Wally's. Wally had to go through the 90's aka The Gimmick Era, and he survived. He got past all the bullshit, and deserves to be treated better than a shitty Titans book where they'll show him no respect and the stories will be essentially retarded. And the idea of killing Linda is just plain stupid. Linda has been the best wife in comics...No question. Easily the best relationship in comics. No family has gone through what they've gone through, and if killing off Linda and her kids is a plot point, then that writer has zero talent. The kids may not be the ideal age for great storytelling, and I,myself, would rather seem them unpowered infants again, but there are still stories to tell. That is the beauty of comics. If you have talent, then it will outweigh the negative things holding your story back.

what was wally's gimmick during the 90's?

yeah your right the titans book haven't been showing wally/flash any respect yet justice league europe clearly did

why dont you take a step back... wait till april and see what transpires in rebirth. Then come back and if wally doesnt get the deserved treatment and respect then complain. But until then you really dont have anything to support your theory.

so we'll see you in this topic come april
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:42 PM   #70
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what was wally's gimmick during the 90's?

yeah your right the titans book haven't been showing wally/flash any respect yet justice league europe clearly did

why dont you take a step back... wait till april and see what transpires in rebirth. Then come back and if wally doesnt get the deserved treatment and respect then complain. But until then you really dont have anything to support your theory.

so we'll see you in this topic come april
Wally didn't have a gimmick in the 90s, thats why he made it. That's why fans continued to love him. If he tried a gimmick like even the more successful comics did, he wouldn't have been able to rebound. When Mark Waid took over, it was the best thing that could ever happen to a character.

I'm sorry you're the only person that thinks that sorry excuse for a book is any good. What YOU need to do, is face the facts. Howard Porter needs to be taken off the book. His art hurts the book, and people won't disrespect him because they know at full strength he can work some magic, but the stuff he's putting that book these days is done right terrible and you know it. What the fuck are rolling your eyes for? Did I ever mention Justice League Europe? What the hell was the point of bringing that up? Do you realize that Wally wasn't even the primary character in those books?

I'm sorry, maybe you'll understand how I feel about a topic like this when Dick Grayson is thrown to the wayside only to make terrible appearances in arguably DC's worse monthly book. And I hope to all those who probably think I'm coming off as some Wally West obsessed guy, that you take a "step back" and look at the facts we've been given to promote this story. Its not that I'm not excited for Rebirth, I'm just more worried than happy to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
Writing Flash with Wally West, he was kind of the sidekick to Barry Allen
You would think that the guy who wrote 60 issues of the character would have been able to describe Wally with something other than the sidekick.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:47 PM   #71
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Howard Porter needs to be taken off the book. His art hurts the book, and people won't disrespect him because they know at full strength he can work some magic, but the stuff he's putting that book these days is done right terrible and you know it.
Yeah, I applaud Porter for trying to rebound from his injury, but he's not back to his JLA or even Flash-era quality. I'd much rather have him working back up to his normal standards on something other than this POS.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:03 PM   #72
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Wally didn't have a gimmick in the 90s, thats why he made it. That's why fans continued to love him. If he tried a gimmick like even the more successful comics did, he wouldn't have been able to rebound. When Mark Waid took over, it was the best thing that could ever happen to a character.

I'm sorry you're the only person that thinks that sorry excuse for a book is any good. What YOU need to do, is face the facts. Howard Porter needs to be taken off the book. His art hurts the book, and people won't disrespect him because they know at full strength he can work some magic, but the stuff he's putting that book these days is done right terrible and you know it. What the fuck are rolling your eyes for? Did I ever mention Justice League Europe? What the hell was the point of bringing that up? Do you realize that Wally wasn't even the primary character in those books?

I'm sorry, maybe you'll understand how I feel about a topic like this when Dick Grayson is thrown to the wayside only to make terrible appearances in arguably DC's worse monthly book. And I hope to all those who probably think I'm coming off as some Wally West obsessed guy, that you take a "step back" and look at the facts we've been given to promote this story. Its not that I'm not excited for Rebirth, I'm just more worried than happy to see it.



You would think that the guy who wrote 60 issues of the character would have been able to describe Wally with something other than the sidekick.
im not the only person who likes the titans.. step out and look around other message boads aside from a green lantern oriented one.

porter while not at his peak, is still alot of hell better than some other artisists out there.

I brought up the JLE because you said wally isnt getting the respect in TITANS.. Did you read JLE as a series, or are you stating your opinion of a issue or two you might have found in a bin. WALLY was a primary character in the JLE just as much as he is in the TITANS. Wally for the most part was a joke in the JLE.

Again what is your reasoning to complain and to be worried? REBIRTH has yet to even come out.....

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Old 01-19-2009, 01:33 AM   #73
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Titans is terrible, get over it. The book should have been a mini, not an ongoing. It makes no sense for Wally and Dick to be in this book when they have their own books with a lot to deal with in there.

I have every issue that Wally appeared in JLE, and he was far from a joke. He was arguably the best character in a bad series. It was far from perfect and certainly nothing to brag about, but its relevance in this conversation is minimal. If you think Wally is anything other than side character in Titans, you're fooling yourself. The two best characters in that series shouldn't even be involved in it.

There is probably a million posts on this board explaining why all Wally West fans should be worried. If you hadn't noticed, when a series is rebooted with a new star, the previous character ALWAYS take a backseat or dies. I would rather Wally die than to have to read Judd's terrible concept and Porter's terrible artwork in Titans.

let's compare:





Which one looks like shit...which one is the new Howard Porter art?

And for the record, I'm a lot more nervous for the new title than Rebirth. I think what Geoff does in Rebirth will set the tone for the next 5 years of The Flash identity.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.West View Post
Titans is terrible, get over it. The book should have been a mini, not an ongoing. It makes no sense for Wally and Dick to be in this book when they have their own books with a lot to deal with in there.

I have every issue that Wally appeared in JLE, and he was far from a joke. He was arguably the best character in a bad series. It was far from perfect and certainly nothing to brag about, but its relevance in this conversation is minimal. If you think Wally is anything other than side character in Titans, you're fooling yourself. The two best characters in that series shouldn't even be involved in it.

There is probably a million posts on this board explaining why all Wally West fans should be worried. If you hadn't noticed, when a series is rebooted with a new star, the previous character ALWAYS take a backseat or dies. I would rather Wally die than to have to read Judd's terrible concept and Porter's terrible artwork in Titans.



And for the record, I'm a lot more nervous for the new title than Rebirth. I think what Geoff does in Rebirth will set the tone for the next 5 years of The Flash identity.

yeah your right, porter, sorry man you cant work for DC since your not on your top game. yeah we know there are others that suck even worse.. but we have to kick you to the curb... man Im glad porter does not work for you.

jle is going to be part of this conversation. you say west gets no respect in the titans and I'm saying go reread JLE and tell me again. cause my friend your wrong and your grasping at straws.


you say two of the best character shouldnt even be in titans? why? cause they have solo titles? why because titan fans like myself grew up reading titans and these two have been there since the get go.

should bats,supes, wonder woman, aquaman, the list can go on here... not be in the JLA then. they all have had or have solo titles...should they not be on a team that has characters not on their level.. give me a break thats a weak argument. these 2 are part of the heart and the soul if you will of the titans universe.

fine you dont like titans.. great who cares, I dont. just like you dont care that I do.
but this is about FLASH REBIRTH.

geoff already said he hasnt forgotten about wally west. and for dc to give ethan the go ahead and to redesign a costume for wally.. thats a + in the right direction.

but for you to say something like wally is going to die or take the backseat.. you cant say that cause right now you dont have a leg to stand on.. unless you seen some future comic/storyline that nobody else here has seen.

But I doubt that.....

so if you dont like titans, fine.. if you want your wally fix, I guess keep reading JLA and rebirth when it comes out.

also dont forget sean mckeever is doing an issue or two on the titans..

and from what I been told, judd might not be coming back.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:43 AM   #75
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I can't wait for this in April. My brother being a huge Flash fan is counting down the days.
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