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View Poll Results: What has been the biggest downfall of GL comics?
Geoff Johns 1 10.00%
The introduction of all of the different colored Corps 2 20.00%
Too much emphasis on Hal Jordan 1 10.00%
Simon Baz/Jessica Cruz/"Green Lanterns" 4 40.00%
Ending "New Guardians" 0 0%
"Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps"/being too packed 0 0%
Bad writers/writing 1 10.00%
Bad artists/artwork 0 0%
Too many events/event fatigue 1 10.00%
Lack of continuity 0 0%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-11-2018, 11:21 PM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Default What has been the biggest downfall of GL comics?



Like, in the last 5 years, what do you think is the biggest think that's hurt Green Lantern comics and its readership?
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:31 PM   #2
Trey Strain
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Wow, that's a tough choice. All of these have been big problems:

Geoff Johns
The introduction of all of the different colored Corps
Too much emphasis on Hal Jordan
Simon Baz/Jessica Cruz/"Green Lanterns"

But if I had to choose one thing to do FIRST, it would be to get rid of Baz and Cruz.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:39 AM   #3
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In the five year period, yeah, the focus on Cruz and Baz.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:44 AM   #4
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I think the problems with Green Lantern fall under two or three categories.

First, are the smaller problems, though they are important. I would put bad writing and lack of continuity in this category. The quality of Green Lantern comics that are being put out now is low. They may not be so bad as to be deplorable, but when you do five years of slow, mediocre comics with very iffy continuity, that is going to catch up to you. This problem is solved simply with better storytelling. I think Robert Venditti sucks as a writer (his stories are simply unexciting, and their endings largely anti-climactic), so maybe DC can improve things on this front going forward with someone else.

Then you get into the larger, overarching problems, and the way I see it, one way or another, these problems are mostly due to Geoff Johns. When you take a look at many of the options in the poll, Johns (or at least the comics he wrote and the directions he set) is ultimately the cause of them. His biggest offense is probably creating Baz and Cruz, and the creation of the Green Lanterns comic book. Maybe. Forcing Hal Jordan on consumers is also a really big problem depending on your perspective.

The third category in GL problems I'd say is the totally fractured fanbase, and I think Johns has a hand to play in this as well. Admittedly, it was going on before he even got there. However, he hasn't helped with creating Baz and Cruz, and the problem is possibly as bad as it's ever been.

Fans are always at each others' throats, and they get mad when some Lantern they don't like is chosen for some role, or even if some villain shows up in a comic that their favorite Lantern won't be in, because they perceive some other Lantern as stealing his stuff, or someone took someone else's love interest, or some say some Lantern gets all the roles while they say the audience at large never responded favorably to him.
To say the least, it's very messy... Untangling and repairing that is probably the most daunting task DC faces with the Green Lantern brand, aside from dealing with the continued toxicity and damage control of the 2011 film.

If I had to pick the biggest problem with Green Lantern as a brand, it's the fact that general audiences aren't fond of it. Following that, it's the fractured, perpetually unhappy and nervous fanbase.

If we're only talking about comics, I'll go with Baz and Cruz. They're totally unnecessary characters in my eyes. But even if they were totally wiped out, there are still a lot of big problems facing the brand.

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Old 06-12-2018, 04:49 AM   #5
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I've got to say Venditti carries part of the blame. By the time he took over, Geoff had overexerted the spectrum to the breaking point. And when they had the chance to step away from all of that for a while, he doubled down on it with Relic and Lights Out. And he snapped my interest into a million pieces.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
I've got to say Venditti carries part of the blame. By the time he took over, Geoff had overexerted the spectrum to the breaking point. And when they had the chance to step away from all of that for a while, he doubled down on it with Relic and Lights Out. And he snapped my interest into a million pieces.
While you're not wrong, at that particular place in time I wonder if he wasn't actively made to do that by Johns, or barring that... felt like he needed to pitch that to get it cleared under Johns' purview.

For me, I was excited when the Sinestro Corps War started. Less so toward its end. Partially for how they did Kyle (so, for admittedly selfish reasons), but mostly for how it just seemed to... well, just cliffhang into every major event since ever.

And I remember it clear as day. Myself going to the mic, asking Geoff Johns at Emerald City Comic Con. "Geoff, I really loved a lot of the lower scale one-in-done, sort of low-key issues. You know, Green Lantern vs. Sonar, or Kyle dealing with some date on Earth or even just coffee at Radu's. Will we ever get away from these giant events that just bleed into one another?" (no, I wasn't that eloquent, but that's the gist of it)

His response?

"I love big events. I'm always going to have big events."

And he received thunderous applause and cheers and I was basically booed back into my seat.

And that didn't bother me. I was in a room with mostly people barely discovering GL. It's whatever. I think it was even the same ECCC that Mark Waid took the mic (no, really... I'm not kidding, he popped out of the line and asked a question like everyone else in the line completely in disguise) and asked Geoff in earnest to revisit Hal Jordan as Pol Manning at some point, almost pleading with him (Geoff shrugged him off). But as time went on and this horse kept being beaten... I kept coming back to this. Why was this such a strange thing?

What happened to Pol Manning? I mean, who cares about Pol Manning now... but that's a major part of Hal's history (and future). But what happened to anything? What happened to Cowgirl? What has made us feel like there is anyone at the wheel in the past 5+ years that has given (or been allowed to) a fuck? Please tell me.

Geoff event-fucked things into oblivion. With a smile.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:18 AM   #7
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Yeah. And when they had a chance to step back from that, they didn't. And then they had another chance with DC Rebirth, and the first storyarcs of both ongoings dealt with the Sinestro Corps and the Red Lantern Corps and I ran away from that so fast I ended up in 2038.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:32 PM   #8
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Its pretty much all of the above.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:16 PM   #9
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The saddest part is that getting rid of Baz and Cruz is the one thing they'll never, ever do, under any circumstances. They'd rather shut down the GL comics completely than do that.

Displaying their virtue means that much to them.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:53 PM   #10
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Kyle being de-powered............................... but cause that's not part of the poll i went with Baz and what's-her-name
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
The saddest part is that getting rid of Baz and Cruz is the one thing they'll never, ever do, under any circumstances. They'd rather shut down the GL comics completely than do that.

Displaying their virtue means that much to them.
I don't think it's virtue signalling as much as it was making sure that Geoff keeps getting his royalty checks. Now that he has less to say, he'll have to write them into Three Jokers or Shazam.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:22 PM   #12
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I don't think it's virtue signalling as much as it was making sure that Geoff keeps getting his royalty checks. Now that he has less to say, he'll have to write them into Three Jokers or Shazam.
I predicted a few days ago that Green Lanterns will continue, with Hal joining the cast. I'd like to be wrong, but I'm sticking to that. We should know something when the September solicits are released.

The silver lining is that this would leave the other Lanterns available for Grant Morrison to write.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 PM   #13
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The saddest part is that getting rid of Baz and Cruz is the one thing they'll never, ever do, under any circumstances. They'd rather shut down the GL comics completely than do that.

Displaying their virtue means that much to them.
As long as Johns is apart of DC Baz and Cruz are untouchable.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:03 PM   #14
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I voted the emotional spectrum, but like Space Cop said if the last 5 years is specifically what you are asking then I will say Baz and Jessica. Adding the SJW crap into an already crowded field of characters was a disaster. There were too many human GLs as it was before they started checking off the lame PC list.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:12 PM   #15
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I don't think it's virtue signalling as much as it was making sure that Geoff keeps getting his royalty checks. Now that he has less to say, he'll have to write them into Three Jokers or Shazam.
I agree. I think the only reason he made Baz and Cruz minorities was to make them harder to get rid of, so to speak. Also so they will offer something that most of the other Green Lanterns don't, which may look appealing to corporate higher ups, therefore increasing their chances of being used in adaptations and whatnot. It was a shrewd move (I think Geoff Johns is a shrewd person), but I'm pretty sure Geoff Johns isn't an SJW and I don't think diversity is a particularly high priority for him.

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Old 06-14-2018, 02:13 AM   #16
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Just get rid of Baz and I’ll be happy
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:11 PM   #17
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You guys... lol.

Ok.. GL in the past five years, what are the issues..

Johns's last issue was May 22, 2013..

Robert Venditti has been the writer and overseer for the GL universe for the past five years.. we've all complained about his writing, how bland it is..

Can any name a good story written by Venditti? I can't..

Lights Out.. Trash
Uprising.. Trash
Godhead... Trash
Renegade.. Trash

Now on to the art.. we had to deal with Billy Tan. Nuff said.

The only good artist we've had in the GL universe is Rafa Navadol

The issues with GL is writing and art. Not Johns or Baz or whatever.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:46 PM   #18
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You guys... lol.

Ok.. GL in the past five years, what are the issues..

Johns's last issue was May 22, 2013..

Robert Venditti has been the writer and overseer for the GL universe for the past five years.. we've all complained about his writing, how bland it is..

Can any name a good story written by Venditti? I can't..

Lights Out.. Trash
Uprising.. Trash
Godhead... Trash
Renegade.. Trash

Now on to the art.. we had to deal with Billy Tan. Nuff said.

The only good artist we've had in the GL universe is Rafa Navadol

The issues with GL is writing and art. Not Johns or Baz or whatever.
I liked Lights Out and Godhead well enough. Godhead was probably the last story I've read. Though a good run shouldn't be determined by how good your mega-events are.

Come to think of it, are H&TGLC and GLs keeping to the 5 issue story arcs, with no "one and done" issues ever, still? Because that really hurt things, to me. I don't want to jump from 5 issue event to 5 issue event. I need some smaller, more intimate stuff from time to time.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:59 AM   #19
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I liked Lights Out and Godhead well enough. Godhead was probably the last story I've read. Though a good run shouldn't be determined by how good your mega-events are.

Come to think of it, are H&TGLC and GLs keeping to the 5 issue story arcs, with no "one and done" issues ever, still? Because that really hurt things, to me. I don't want to jump from 5 issue event to 5 issue event. I need some smaller, more intimate stuff from time to time.
It's the same old thing as ever. Nothing but arcs that are usually about the entire Corps facing some threat that seeks to usurp their position. There are no one and done stories. Or if there are, I'm forgetting them and there is only, like, one. I'm guessing the thinking is that those don't work as well for trade paperbacks. You're reflecting on a method from an era when not every story was collected in trade. Ultimately, there is very little room for character development, and what we do get is retreads of what we already know, nothing new.

Hal Jordan - Idolizes his deceased father.

John Stewart - Serious guy with no sense of fun or humor who usually just comes up with strategies in a command center. He's such a good strategist that he never has to fight. He just comes up with a plan that instantly negates everything he's against. I think this is supposed to make him seem awesome to make up for Venditti usually not doing anything with him, but to me it just = boring.

Kyle Rayner - I dunno'. Promoted/demoted back down to Green Lantern, but once Soranik left the scene, he doesn't seem to have anything to offer, despite getting more play than John or Guy.

Guy Gardner - Still dealing with getting beat by his dad, though that hardly ever comes up. Developed a friendship with Arkillo.

Most character development seems to go to the villains, like Soranik Natu and Tomar-Tu, and even what we see there isn't necessarily great. The heroes are all boring and they don't really advance as characters. They don't seem to have lives, and aside from that one arc with Soranik, they all seem to be happily asexual.

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Old 06-15-2018, 01:09 PM   #20
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. . . Guy Gardner - Still dealing with getting beat by his dad, though that hardly ever comes up. . .
It's actually central to this week's comic. He just became a Darkstar and his first trip is to Baltimore to kill his dad.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:08 PM   #21
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Guy is going to kill his dad? Don't tell me they made Guy a Darkstar. They cant be back to doing that crap again.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:43 PM   #22
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The only good artist we've had in the GL universe is Rafa Navadol
You're forgetting Ethan.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:11 PM   #23
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Guy is going to kill his dad? Don't tell me they made Guy a Darkstar. They cant be back to doing that crap again.
Well, he's a Darkstar this month and the Darkstars are now like the Punishers of the GLU, but they left off with him about to kill his dad; so there's a good chance he'll be stopped next month.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:53 AM   #24
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So we can add Darkatar Guy Gardner to the long list of GL distraction super-gigs. Awesome.
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