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Old 01-12-2019, 04:48 PM   #1
Space Cop
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Default Yes, GL could beat Superman

I thought for sure we had a thread on this, but I can't find it.

Anyway, in the old fanboy debate of whether (a) GL could beat Superman we have new fuel.

In GL: Legacy we had dialogue of Hal telling Tom that kryptonite could be made with a ring, but we didn't see it.

Now (as canon in the New 52), in Justice League #15, John officially made kryptonite as a construct. He said it was difficult, but it was good enough to pass a molecular scan.

My opinion has always been that any GL (and Hal especially) could beat Superman, but that it's not a given since there's always the chance that Clark would take them out before they made their first move.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:48 PM   #2
Big Daddy Dave Skywalker
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I like to think any super hero could beat any other, it just depends on who the writer wants to win. I could write a story where the Atom beats Superman, but that doesn't make it a great idea.

For a GL beating Superman, I like to think you'd create kryptonite particles bonded to a virus that Superman gets in his body to take him out. Kind of underhanded and boring, but really the best ways to take someone out are.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:55 PM   #3
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It all boils down to "can Superman use his superspeed before his opponent attacks", and Heroes in Crisis showed us that he can't even outrun Harley Quinn. And neither can Wally West, the in-canon fastest man alive.

Heroes in Crisis is dumb. But canon.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:15 PM   #4
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I think the question has been adequately answered in Red Son and Injustice. Superman can move faster than most species, humans included, can think. Unless a GL has the element of surprise or it's a GL with enhanced durability like Kilowog or Sodam Yat, the fight would be over as soon as Superman strips the GL of his ring.

In fact, the recent storyline with General Zod in HJ&GLC put forth the story point that just about any Kryptonian has an advantage over a GL in an even-combatant scenario. While it's true that under the right circumstances, GLs *might* be able to overcome a Kryptonian, any random 1-on-1 encounter stacks the odds heavily in the favor of the Kryptonian.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:53 AM   #5
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I'll see your Kryptonian/Flash superspeed and counter with the ever-present GL force field around the wielder. If GLs can simulate Kryptonite with their power rings, and it is canon that Kryptonite is low-level radiation only harmful to humans in the long-term (Lex Luthor lost a hand to his Kryptonite ring, after all), then making ALL green energy constructs superimposed with Kryptonite radiation while a Kryptonian is present says "Checkmate, Kryptonian".

Programming a GL ring against Kryptonian super-speed, super-strength, freeze breath, etc is not unheard of, even without Guardian assistance. The only long-range threat from Superman, Supergirl, Zod, et al is their heat vision, and the GL force field can be tuned against that as well.

As for the Color Corps, Sinestro's Fear Corps should be able to make Gold Kryptonite by the same logic, the Red Lanterns making Red Kryptonite, the Blue Lanterns making Blue Kryptonite, Star Sapphires making Jewel Kryptonite, etc.

John Stewart was even able to emulate a Black Ring using an Indigo Tribe power ring, which means Black Kryptonite is not out of possibility.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:33 AM   #6
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Back around the early 2000's when Superman went nuts and the expanded Morrison era Justice League had to go after him... remember when he dropped his Clark Kent ID to be Superman full time? During the time Outburst came on to the scene and formed the modern Supermen of America? No?

I know I'm likely the only person that remembers half of this because I was a big fan of the Outburst character [because he was shown before getting metahuman powers during the Death of Superman era when Doomsday smashed through his home] but most notably the only thing anybody took from the whole story was Superman has a ton of Superman looking Super-androids. For a time they each had individual looks and I thought a lot of them would make for an interesting look for the actual Superman...

Anyway getting back to the expanded Morrison era JLA going after Superman... [he started going slightly Injustice, removing nukes from the planet and saving us from ourselves type acts] while Orion and other members of the League beat Superman physically all across the planet [a shot from Wonder Woman or Orion sent Supes flying] other members staged an attack to put Superman down for good. Martian Manhunter programmed the molecular structure for kryptonite into Kyle Rayner's mind and when the League cornered Superman....

Kyle made the stuff, I think it was just a large rock of it. Superman was taken by it in no time already beaten into submission and Kyle started tearing up. "Am I seriously going to go on as a hero after killing THE biggest hero?" He was still technically a rookie, maybe into his second year in the context of his era... his first year being over right around issue #100 of his series. How did it end you ask? That damn legion of Superman androids saved the Kryptonian despot.



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Old 01-13-2019, 06:10 AM   #7
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Yeah, it really is just a matter of writing. Quite a few superheroes are way overpowered and unstoppable if writers want them to be. Who would be able to stop The Flash if you wanted to write him as invincible, which you could. But then some other time Heat Wave gives him problems. Same goes for Superman, but writing like that is no fun, so he has difficulty fighting Metallo or Toy Man, while Hal Jordan has trouble with Sonar. And when Despero comes around, EVERYONE at once has trouble fighting him, but if a writer was so inclined, I could see them having Superman defeat him alone. I mean, I have seen Superman punch out Darkseid, after all. I guess the trick is that, whatever it is you are writing, make it believable to your audience and get them invested in it.

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Old 01-17-2019, 07:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star-Lantern View Post
Yeah, it really is just a matter of writing. Quite a few superheroes are way overpowered and unstoppable if writers want them to be.
I often see writers, even competent ones, sacrifice obvious narrative rules when they're in their storytelling zone. While I've always been a fan of Ocean Master, watching him fend off the entire Justice League in Throne of Atlantis was perplexing. I've never seen him as Superman's equal, let alone a match for Supes, Flash, Wondy, and GL collectively.

One of my pet peeves with Green Lantern is when writers decide to remind us that the GLs are still tough guys/gals without their respective rings. That's perfectly fine, but we've seen ringless Hal and ringless Guy each wallop Kilowog. Exactly how does a punch or kick from a human hurt a member of a species with superhuman strength, enhanced durability, and with a body weight that appears to be 3x-4x that of an average human?
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue Lantern View Post
... One of my pet peeves with Green Lantern is when writers decide to remind us that the GLs are still tough guys/gals without their respective rings. That's perfectly fine, but we've seen ringless Hal and ringless Guy each wallop Kilowog. Exactly how does a punch or kick from a human hurt a member of a species with superhuman strength, enhanced durability, and with a body weight that appears to be 3x-4x that of an average human?
Yeah, there was a similar thing where Guy and Arkillo fought ringless. They did have Guy get seriously beat-up, but they also portrayed it as if it were close, which is dumb.

Besides, in superhero terms, I think it's much impressive that a hero would go into a fight they know they can't win than it is to just ignore them being outclassed.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:11 PM   #10
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It's like saying Hal or Guy could take off their rings and fist fight a gorilla or a Kodiak bear. I personally hate it when they do this shit in the comics. When Guy fought Arkillo it just felt waaaaay too forced.



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Old 01-30-2019, 04:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Cop View Post
Yeah, there was a similar thing where Guy and Arkillo fought ringless. They did have Guy get seriously beat-up, but they also portrayed it as if it were close, which is dumb.

Besides, in superhero terms, I think it's much impressive that a hero would go into a fight they know they can't win than it is to just ignore them being outclassed.
I completely agree. A situation like Guy taking a beatdown from Arkillo, but Ark being impressed by Guy's tenacity to keep going would be much more satisfying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ωmega Man View Post
It's like saying Hal or Guy could take off their rings and fist fight a gorilla or a Kodiak bear. I personally hate it when they do this shit in the comics. When Guy fought Arkillo it just felt waaaaay too forced.



That's a good analogy. Just because a hero is outclassed on occasion isn't justification for illogical plot armor moments.
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 PM   #12
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During the Silver and Bronze ages, Supes and GL were on par when it came to power levels, but in this current era, GL is completely outclassed by big blue. Heck, when the GL's went toe-to-toe with the New Gods, the rings, which were supposed to be "the most powerful weapon in the universe" were as effective as toilet paper.

Ultimately, it boils down to whomever is writing the story and if they can make it seem feasible and interesting.
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