Homelessness

[Trey Strain]

I saw that Los Angeles County has now found homes for more than 6,000 of its estimated 40,000 homeless. That's good, but there's another problem. The jails and prisons have been forced to grant early release to many inmates because of Covid-19, and a number of them are ending up homeless.

Damn.

[Trey Strain]

Last summer I began spotting some people on the streets who didn't seem like the usual homeless people I see all the time.

They tended to be somewhat better groomed, and their behavior was more aggressive. They showed fewer signs of mental illness or intellectual disability. They also seemed like rookies, naive about life on the streets. Many of them were unprepared when it finally started raining on them after an eight-month dry season. Some would begin sleeping and making messes in areas where they should have known they'd be quickly chased away.

I suspect that many of them are paroled convicts.

[Trey Strain]

When the Covid plague started, many people thought the death rate among the homeless would be huge. But in fact very few of them have gotten it. That's because everybody stays away from them.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

When the Covid plague started, many people thought the death rate among the homeless would be huge. But in fact very few of them have gotten it. That's because everybody stays away from them.

From what I've read, quite a few have gotten it, actually. They were showing infection rates of residents and employees in shelters as upwards of 20% in some areas.

It may depend on the environment. As I understand it, the virus doesn't survive nearly so well outdoors, especially in direct sunlight. So people in shelters may be more susceptible than those living outdoors?

[Trey Strain]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

From what I've read, quite a few have gotten it, actually. They were showing infection rates of residents and employees in shelters as upwards of 20% in some areas.

It may depend on the environment. As I understand it, the virus doesn't survive nearly so well outdoors, especially in direct sunlight. So people in shelters may be more susceptible than those living outdoors?

They're not getting it except when they're packed into shelters and kitchens. Everybody observes social distancing with them, and they stay out in the wind.

One thing though. I suspect that few of them will get the vaccine. They and the one-third of Americans who think they're "too smart" to get vaccinated with be getting sick and dying long after the problem has receded for everyone else.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/u...-homeless.html

[Trey Strain]

I've recently gotten involved with locating homeless people in areas where they're not readily visible and reporting them to the appropriate workers. They interview the people and try to get them into housing.

Oddly enough, quite a few of them need a good deal of persuading to accept the offer. I've noticed that they become more willing to come indoors after a big rain.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

I've recently gotten involved with locating homeless people in areas where they're not readily visible and reporting them to the appropriate workers. They interview the people and try to get them into housing.

Oddly enough, quite a few of them need a good deal of persuading to accept the offer. I've noticed that they become more willing to come indoors after a big rain.

Part of the problem, at least here in Portland, is that they have to give up pretty much all of their belongings to get into a shelter. I was surprised to read that (in a recent article about why efforts to move homeless into shelters are failing), but it makes sense when I think about it (shelters have limited space, and some homeless people have more stuff than would reasonably fit), and does explain why some would be reluctant (especially if they have to give up their tents, which would feel like giving up the possibility of changing their mind later).

[TazzMission]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

I've recently gotten involved with locating homeless people in areas where they're not readily visible and reporting them to the appropriate workers. They interview the people and try to get them into housing.

Oddly enough, quite a few of them need a good deal of persuading to accept the offer. I've noticed that they become more willing to come indoors after a big rain.

See where i live in Illinois we have a lot and i mean alot of panhandlers who say there homeless conning people as far as stolen valor and its a shame because there really are homeless people and you wont know who is legitimate if your not from the area im in . My brother even recorded panhandlers walking behind a store in a brand new suv . A old neighbor of mine at my old place said he racked up 2 grand a day for like 3 days in a wealthy neighborhood wich have like million dollar homes just by panhandling. I know everyone in my area i even know the cops because i have to know. I just hate con artists. It really is sad

[Trey Strain]

There are plenty of real homeless people out there. But I've seen a few people panhandling at freeway off-ramps who I didn't think were homeless.

One reason some don't want to go in is that they actually feel safer outdoors than they would living in rooms adjacent to their own kind. They have to be shown that there are good security measures in those places.

They're also required to take showers and wash their clothes there.

[TazzMission]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

There are plenty of real homeless people out there. But I've seen a few people panhandling at freeway off-ramps who I didn't think were homeless.

One reason some don't want to go in is that they actually feel safer outdoors than they would living in rooms adjacent to their own kind. They have to be shown that there are good security measures in those places.

They're also required to take showers and wash their clothes there.

Oh i agree theres real homeless but how do people know there legitimate? Also if the state of California and from what i hear Oregon as well gave a shit about homeless they would of done something about it. Maybed ed can answer but isnt Oregon like the second state with a rising homeless issue?

[Mister Ed]

We do have a lot of homelessness. It seems like there isn't a lot of governmental will for the kind of tough love that would be required to address it.

They are kind of stuck, because people, in general, are fed up with there being homeless encampments literally everywhere, but people (perhaps a different set of people, but probably there is some overlap, as many people don't really think stuff through) also get up in arms when homeless camps are forcibly broken up, or homeless people are arrested in large numbers for various infractions. And anytime you use the police to do ANYTHING around here, the "abolish the police" whackos come out of the woodwork, it seems.

Various services are provided, but nobody is able to MAKE the homeless avail themselves of them, and the government seems to be unwilling to make things uncomfortable enough for them on the streets to convince them to do so.

And I get that. It kind of feels like kicking people when they are down. But leaving them where they are isn't exactly humane, either, even if you set aside the negative consequences for everybody else. (And I also suspect that our lax approach leads more homeless people to come here from elsewhere, as they are less likely to get "hassled".)

[TazzMission]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

We do have a lot of homelessness. It seems like there isn't a lot of governmental will for the kind of tough love that would be required to address it.

They are kind of stuck, because people, in general, are fed up with there being homeless encampments literally everywhere, but people (perhaps a different set of people, but probably there is some overlap, as many people don't really think stuff through) also get up in arms when homeless camps are forcibly broken up, or homeless people are arrested in large numbers for various infractions. And anytime you use the police to do ANYTHING around here, the "abolish the police" whackos come out of the woodwork, it seems.

Various services are provided, but nobody is able to MAKE the homeless avail themselves of them, and the government seems to be unwilling to make things uncomfortable enough for them on the streets to convince them to do so.

And I get that. It kind of feels like kicking people when they are down. But leaving them where they are isn't exactly humane, either, even if you set aside the negative consequences for everybody else. (And I also suspect that our lax approach leads more homeless people to come here from elsewhere, as they are less likely to get "hassled".)

If im not mistaken aren't a lot of them coming from California do to overpopulation ?

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by TazzMission

If im not mistaken aren't a lot of them coming from California do to overpopulation ?

Maybe? I can't find any figures on specific origin, just local vs. new to the area. Last figure I saw said about 25% are new to the area. I can't say specifically where they are coming from.

[Trey Strain]

Homeless people actually come to California. That's because it's warm here and doesn't rain much.

One thing that's being done right here is that we have people who are trained at persuading them to accept the rooms that are offered to them. Sometimes it takes a while to win them over, but as I said, a big rain serves as a strong nudge to get them indoors.

[Trey Strain]

A while back, before Covid appeared, I saw a hand-written cardboard sign discarded on the ground on which someone had written a note asking for money because he had rabies.

I'm not kidding. Some panhandler claimed he had rabies.

It amazes me how many of these people there are, and what a psychological condition they're in. It's no use demanding that they work, because they're unemployable. They just need to be given rooms and gotten off the streets.

[Space Cop]

^True and agreed, but there are the exceptions of people down on their luck with the legit “will work for food” signs. My blood father (who’s on the the other side of the country from me) has been homeless but he got a job and home and still has them now.

I also have some Christian friends who’ve on multiple occasions taken in homeless people and gotten them jobs and/or into rehab programs. When one particular gentleman’s (who’s actually politically quite conservative) wife died I heard a couple such testimonies about the couple from mourners who attended and later found out from his son (my friend) that there were a bunch of such casdes. Had a seminary professor who would do that too.

Some people just need the leg up.

[Big Blue Lantern]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

A while back, before Covid appeared, I saw a hand-written cardboard sign discarded on the ground on which someone had written a note asking for money because he had rabies.

I'm not kidding. Some panhandler claimed he had rabies.

It amazes me how many of these people there are, and what a psychological condition they're in. It's no use demanding that they work, because they're unemployable. They just need to be given rooms and gotten off the streets.

These are the kind of cases that need ongoing, systematic support. They often need education and service planning in even the most basic areas. Even the ones who respond well to treatment, and perhaps manage to improve, can sometimes have an external circumstance or a biological complication that leads to another hospitalization. Then the process of recovery starts from ground zero again.

Salute to you for being part of the solution, Trey.

[Trey Strain]

Originally Posted by Big Blue Lantern

These are the kind of cases that need ongoing, systematic support. They often need education and service planning in even the most basic areas. Even the ones who respond well to treatment, and perhaps manage to improve, can sometimes have an external circumstance or a biological complication that leads to another hospitalization. Then the process of recovery starts from ground zero again.

Salute to you for being part of the solution, Trey.

I appreciate that. It's rewarding to see those tents disappear.

[Trey Strain]

A team came out to a convenience story today that I had pointed them to and interviewed five homeless people. One is an especially sad case. He is filthy, shockingly scrawny, and covered with sores. He grunts gibberish and twitches. I hope to God they can get him indoors.

[Trey Strain]

Correction. The number of homeless people in the city of Los Angeles, which is where I live, is 41K. The estimated number in LA County (which includes the city) is 66K.

I suspect that those estimates are low. But I don't agree that there are more of them now than there were ten years ago, which is what I keep hearing. In fact there seem to be a good deal fewer. Van Nuys used to be overrun with them, and it's visually obvious that there aren't nearly as many now. Also I'm getting panhandled much less than I did then.

I think the estimates might have extremely low back then. They're probably still low but more accurate now.

[Mister Ed]

Well, here in Portland, there do seem to be a lot more homeless than there were a few years ago. I don't know what the figures are, but the visible presence of homeless people all over the city is FAR greater than it was even 5 years ago.

[Trey Strain]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

Well, here in Portland, there do seem to be a lot more homeless than there were a few years ago. I don't know what the figures are, but the visible presence of homeless people all over the city is FAR greater than it was even 5 years ago.

I don't know why homeless people would stay in Portland, with all that rain.

And let me revise those numbers a bit more. Of the 41K homeless people in LA, about 15K are considered chronically homeless. Most of the others will be out there only until someone takes them in.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by Trey Strain

I don't know why homeless people would stay in Portland, with all that rain.

And let me revise those numbers a bit more. Of the 41K homeless people in LA, about 15K are considered chronically homeless. Most of the others will be out there only until someone takes them in.

Technically it rains less than half the year here. Winters are wet, Summers are dry. But yeah, I'd hate to be out on the street during the worst weather here (though while the winters are wet, they are not THAT cold. We get less than 3 inches of snow here a year on average).

[Trey Strain]

This morning I had to call the fire department on one who was trespassing in a vacant lot and had started a fire. I didn't want to escalate it to the police. The firemen just told him to leave the lot.

Some of them start fires on lots or in vacant buildings to keep warm, and of course they have no idea how to control a fire, so it gets out of hand.

I read the other day that some politicians want to try to push them into the workforce. But that's a fool's errand. Who is going to hire them, and what jobs are they going to do? A few of them can become successfully employed, but damned few. That money would be much better spent on the working poor. Homeless people just need rooms.

[Trey Strain]

Right now I'm watching firemen knock down a fire in a vacant business on Sepulveda Boulevard. Several vacant businesses nearby are going to suffer major smoke damage.

I'm told that a homeless woman started it. It's a warm day, so she was probably smoking tobacco or something worse.

They've got to be taken off the streets. It's not even cheaper to leave them out there, let alone is it humane.