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Old 02-12-2020, 02:03 AM   #51
Parrylakks
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[COLOR="Yellow"]wait a minnit: I thought pg-13 meant nobody under 13yo could get in w/o an adult/ being supervised.....right?
Nope, only the R rating carries that requirement.

G = General Audiences
PG = Parental Guidance Suggested
PG-13 = Parents Strongly Cautioned
R = Restricted; No One Under 17 Permitted Without a Parent or Guardian.
NC-17 = No One Under 17 Permitted.

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Yeah, there's a lot of that in my circles (Presbyterian), but less than I used to hear in the 80s and 90s. I don't mind anyone being careful about what they're watching or censoring their children, but it seems a bit silly to assume that the ratings system is somehow Biblical or godly as if there's nothing offensive until you get to 'R.'
I agree, and the difference in rating systems from country to country is the perfect evidence of that. I like to point to A Few Good Men as a perfect example. It's rated R in the USA for language, because it says the F word dozens of times. Meanwhile, it's rated a mere PG in Canada, because there's only a bunch of F words in it, and nothing else particularly offensive. No sex, minimal violence, and a lot of talking... with F words. That's it.

My brother, to his merit, actually agrees that the rating system is inherently flawed, but it holds to the R rating being the general cut off point for him because he assumes there's probably more R rated movies that contain things he doesn't like (language, sex, nudity, excessive gore) than just what he's okay with (general bloody violence), and he's probably right. Of course, there are some movies I've told him he could watch and enjoy (like my favorite film, Kingdom of Heaven) that he still refuses to see because of the rating, but such as it is.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:01 AM   #52
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Yo.

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Posttrak says 53% male, Cinemascore says 51% female. I can't find the ratio for Suicide Squad to compare those numbers with.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...aturday-917863

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Box Office: 'Suicide Squad' Opens to Big $133.7M But Drops Sharply Saturday

------

The biggest surprise in terms of audience makeup was the strong turnout among females, who made up 46 percent of Friday's audience, according to exit polling service CinemaScore. That's unusual for a superhero film. However, leading polling service PostTrak shows a different demo breakdown, with females making up 42 percent to 43 percent of the audience.



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Old 02-14-2020, 08:58 PM   #53
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Yo.

I was still feeling not-too-confident about this film, so I went & viewed it thru _other means_ (<.< >.> <.<)......and I only lasted 24:34 into it.

honestly, I wanted t see if the "funny, smart & sassy" -angle jibbed well with the whole R-rated dialogue w/drug use.....but it didn't really; I wasn't impressed, and the changes they made to the various characters involved in the story was the final 3 nails in its coffin (in regards to my willingness to soldier on to the films end.)

speaking honestly, I was never a big H.Q. -fan to begin with, but I wanted to give it a shot; however, seeing how certain decisions got made in regard to its development.....







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Old 02-17-2020, 05:30 AM   #54
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Yo.



I'm curious: how close to her comic roots was movie- Cassie Cain??

Like MH said, there's only a modicum of her comic roots. Perhaps I've missed an updated origin, but the original mute, assassin-in-training characterization was absent.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:13 PM   #55
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Yeah, beyond Harley herself, pretty much every character except for maybe Huntress (who now dresses in... black garbage bags?) is destroyed in this. This Black Canary, Black Mask, Mr. Zsasz, Renee Montoya and Cassie all bear no resemblance to the actual characters.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:20 PM   #56
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The trailers seemed to indicate that Black Canary would at least be accurate to her New 52 backstory, which was never ideal, but still. If they don't even get that right, I might wait for digital to see this. She's the one I have the most fanboyish stake in. Of course, I'll still buy it, but as I've said before, that's just because it's DC. Can't be worse than Catwoman, right? Right?
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:30 PM   #57
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The trailers seemed to indicate that Black Canary would at least be accurate to her New 52 backstory, which was never ideal, but still.
They don't really give her any backstory. She's just a singer for Black Mask who then becomes his driver. Her Canary Cry is never explained, nor the many times she could use it to help the situation but doesn't (she only uses it once in the movie).

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Can't be worse than Catwoman, right? Right?
Depends on how you look at it. While sucking, Catwoman didn't damage any actual DC characters (Patience Philips and everyone else in there were all made up, just for the movie). Birds of Prey? It drags a whole bunch of beloved characters down into the mud with it.
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:28 PM   #58
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/sigh

I knew making a Harley Quinn movie "Birds of Prey" was going to make it all lose something, especially after they cut Oracle from the script, but that's just so disappointing. For all its wonkiness, it seems like Smallville's Black Canary shall ever remain the most comic accurate. The only thing that one really got wrong was that she was a short blonde haired woman who wore a long brunette wig instead of a short brunette haired woman who wore a long blonde one.
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:43 AM   #59
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The trailers seemed to indicate that Black Canary would at least be accurate to her New 52 backstory, which was never ideal, but still. If they don't even get that right, I might wait for digital to see this. She's the one I have the most fanboyish stake in. Of course, I'll still buy it, but as I've said before, that's just because it's DC. Can't be worse than Catwoman, right? Right?
No, it's far better than INO Catwoman. Most of the characters in BoP are recognizable, the plot is decent, and there are some stellar acting performances. BoP might not be the hit that WB wanted, but when their BO run is finished, it will likely be a modest success.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:04 AM   #60
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They don't really give her any backstory. She's just a singer for Black Mask who then becomes his driver. Her Canary Cry is never explained, nor the many times she could use it to help the situation but doesn't (she only uses it once in the movie).
They clearly say that she inherited the scream from her mom, who worked with the police against organized crime. The police couldn't protect her and she was killed by the mob.
Canary has problems controlling the scream. In the club, there is one scene where she sings, and the scream is welling up, destroying a glass. It's only at the end where they have no other choice that she tries it with any confidence, and it works fine then. There's a story there, presumably for a sequel that's never going to come.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:07 AM   #61
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No, it's far better than INO Catwoman...
I actually own (on BD) and like Catwoman. I have to admit, though, that part of the fun for me is laughing at it and part is Halley Berry in those outfits (wisH she stayed in the first one).

I feel like it’s fun and didn’t really take itself seriously, which make it more enjoyable to me than MoS or BvS.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:07 AM   #62
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I actually own (on BD) and like Catwoman. I have to admit, though, that part of the fun for me is laughing at it and part is Halley Berry in those outfits (wisH she stayed in the first one).

I feel like itís fun and didnít really take itself seriously, which make it more enjoyable to me than MoS or BvS.
We're definitely on opposite ends of the storytelling spectrum there. Movies/shows that wink at the camera are hit-and-miss for me. Films like Shazam and Ant-Man feel like fluff, and I usually only give them 1-2 viewings. BvS and MoS had themes that I could really sink my teeth into, so I couldn't wait for the Blu-rays and a chance to consume details that I missed in the theatrical viewings.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:53 AM   #63
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For me, MoS and BvS (taking themselves too seriously) fall right in the middle of Shazam (not taking themselves too seriously done right) and Catwoman (not taking themselves too seriously done wrong).
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:46 AM   #64
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No, it's far better than INO Catwoman. Most of the characters in BoP are recognizable, the plot is decent, and there are some stellar acting performances. BoP might not be the hit that WB wanted, but when their BO run is finished, it will likely be a modest success.
Not remotely, at the current trajectory. It's going to begin and end in the red for sure. I don't even see aftermarket stuff saving it.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:34 AM   #65
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Not remotely, at the current trajectory. It's going to begin and end in the red for sure. I don't even see aftermarket stuff saving it.
Actually, it's nearing the profit level. Remember, it's budget was a meager $85 million (although there's no exact number), and if we apply the old rule of doubling that to account for the promotional budget, BoP will likely turn a profit around the $170 million mark. As of last weekend, it's total haul was $145 million, so it's safe to say that it will turn a slight-to-modest profit.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:57 PM   #66
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We're definitely on opposite ends of the storytelling spectrum there...
Well, I knew our tastes were far apart when you spoke of looking forward to the Venditti/Mahnke Justice League since that’s on my list of least favorite creators. Mind you, I’m reading it because I’ve read JL for years, but if someone asked me for a list of 5 or so creators I would rather never have on a book I buy, both of those name would’ve been on the list (though under Liefeld and JRJr).

Meh, different stroke for different folks.

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...Movies/shows that wink at the camera are hit-and-miss for me. Films like Shazam and Ant-Man feel like fluff, and I usually only give them 1-2 viewings. BvS and MoS had themes that I could really sink my teeth into, so I couldn't wait for the Blu-rays and a chance to consume details that I missed in the theatrical viewings.
It’s funny, but in general I have no problems with dark or even hopeless films (there’s plenty of those in my collection), but I just don’t seem to like it in superhero movies—a prejudice I guess. I don’t think Catwoman actually got it right, but I would say that I basically look for a Donner-Superman-type movie when it comes to capes.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:01 PM   #67
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Actually, it's nearing the profit level. Remember, it's budget was a meager $85 million (although there's no exact number), and if we apply the old rule of doubling that to account for the promotional budget, BoP will likely turn a profit around the $170 million mark. As of last weekend, it's total haul was $145 million, so it's safe to say that it will turn a slight-to-modest profit.
Your model only works if you assume the studio gets every dollar spent on the movie anywhere and theaters are non-profit organizations. They don't and they aren't.

"Birds of Prey" earned 145... worldwide. Only 61 of that is domestic. 84 of it is international/foreign, for which the studio only sees about a third of the profits or less, optimistically... that's gonna be about 28 million. Of the 61 domestic, that's before the theaters take their cut. Which isn't huge, though the longer a movie stays in theaters the bigger the cut becomes. Still, we're talking a third of the money going bye-bye overall... so adios to about 20 million of that 61. 28 + 41 = 69 million in actual money from "Birds of Prey" going to the studio against the 85 million production budget... and we haven't even factored in the unknown marketing budget yet.

That, and weekend #2 has already passed. Unless we're talking about like an "Avatar" or something, movies fall like a rock at this point.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:45 PM   #68
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The first John Wick grossed $86 million worldwide, half of which outside of the US. On a budget of $40 million plus marketing. And that was enough profit to warrant two sequels. Birds of Prey has roughly twice the ticket sales at roughly twice the budget, with a smaller run next weekend that will add less, but it's going to add a few million. What am I missing here?
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:56 PM   #69
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The first John Wick grossed $86 million worldwide, half of which outside of the US. On a budget of $40 million plus marketing. And that was enough profit to warrant two sequels. Birds of Prey has roughly twice the ticket sales at roughly twice the budget, with a smaller run next weekend that will add less, but it's going to add a few million. What am I missing here?
I'm seeing only a budget of 30 million before marketing on John Wick 1. By my figuring, it nabbed 29 (43 - a third) million domestic after cost and 11 (a third of 76 - 43) million foreign. So that's 40 million against the 30 million dollar budget, not including the marketing campaign. So assuming it had only a modest marketing campaign (which it did), I'd imagine it broke even or a little better... pluuuus there's the whole thing about it becoming an immediate cult classic that made a big splash on blu-ray and DVD, to the tune of 40 million (which is really good, even in 2014). Also, critics and audiences alike loved it and it had great word of mouth. If I was an investor I'd take a chance on John Wick 2.

And no, that wasn't enough to warrant two sequels... it was enough to warrant one sequel, which more than doubled its budget domestically alone. Based on that they did John Wick 3, which more than quadrupled its budget domestically alone. It's pretty remarkable to see that kind of growth between sequels, really. Usually it goes the other way.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:12 PM   #70
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Yo.

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Actually, it's nearing the profit level. Remember, it's budget was a meager $85 million (although there's no exact number), and if we apply the old rule of doubling that to account for the promotional budget, BoP will likely turn a profit around the $170 million mark. As of last weekend, it's total haul was $145 million, so it's safe to say that it will turn a slight-to-modest profit.
theres a problems with yur line of thought: earning $170M+ worldwide wont mean much if most of its made in markets overseas (which means it failed in its home market, and will likely not do that great when its released on dvd as well.)

for this film to be viewed as not a bomb, it'll hafta make that $170M DOMESTICALLY, and the likelihood of it doing so.....well, it aint good (granted it IS possible, but I wouldn't take any bets personally.)
:/




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Old 02-18-2020, 05:25 PM   #71
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for this film to be viewed as not a bomb, it'll hafta make that $170M DOMESTICALLY, and the likelihood of it doing so.....well, it aint good (granted it IS possible, but I wouldn't take any bets personally.)
:/
And even if by some miracle "Birds of Prey" has legs and lasts in theaters for the next two months or whatever (it won't) and crawls to 170 million domestically... by that point the returns back to the studio would be so infinitesimal that it wouldn't mean anything. Every weekend a theater remains in theaters, the profit % slides more and more to the theater's benefit.

It's usually like... (domestically) weekend #1, studio gets 75-80% of the profits, theater gets 20-25%; weekend #2, studio gets 65% of the profits, theater gets 35%; weekend #3, studio gets 20%, theater gets 80%. And so on. By the time a movie's been out a month, it's just the theaters sitting pretty.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:32 PM   #72
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Yo.

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The first John Wick grossed $86 million worldwide, half of which outside of the US. On a budget of $40 million plus marketing. And that was enough profit to warrant two sequels. Birds of Prey has roughly twice the ticket sales at roughly twice the budget, with a smaller run next weekend that will add less, but it's going to add a few million. What am I missing here?
JW also had very good word of press after its release (especially for an R), which can be seen in how well the profits increased in the 2 following movies.....

I don't think BoP will have the same benefit post-release, given how word-of-mouth seems to affect it now.





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Old 02-18-2020, 05:34 PM   #73
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Yo.



theres a problems with yur line of thought: earning $170M+ worldwide wont mean much if most of its made in markets overseas (which means it failed in its home market, and will likely not do that great when its released on dvd as well.)

for this film to be viewed as not a bomb, it'll hafta make that $170M DOMESTICALLY, and the likelihood of it doing so.....well, it aint good (granted it IS possible, but I wouldn't take any bets personally.)
:/




Tazer
It's certainly not a bomb by any stretch the imagination. It's getting mostly positive critic and audience reviews, which will give it some legs. Even if it's the international markets that put it over the top, profit is profit.

It seems to me him that some overzealous fans were expecting a repeat of Joker's success. That was a different animal completely. BoP is a sequel to a divisive film that was a moderate BO success. It was always unlikely to be a smash hit.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:48 PM   #74
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It's certainly not a bomb by any stretch the imagination. It's getting mostly positive critic and audience reviews, which will give it some legs. Even if it's international markets that put it over the top, profit is profit.

It seems to me him that some overzealous fans were expecting a repeat of Joker's success. That was a different animal completely. BoP is a sequel to a divisive film that was a moderate BO success. It was always unlikely to be a smash hit.
well, to be fair the movie hasn't finished its run yet, so maybe calling it a bomb is pre-mature; I DO feel safe in calling it a failure tho.

yes, it has gotten both positive critic & user reviews, but its b.o. take dropped off by fully 1/2 from its debut wk-end, its hasn't reached the market its was being promoted to (remember, this was "by women, starring women, FOR women".....but more MEN gave it money & time), it locked out the LARGER age bracket who was more likely to watch it, its been superseded in desirability by Sonic, and lastly.....it divided the 1 market it could've held onto for a solid $$$-return: the comic fans.

like A-NDB said: if it gets to $170M here, its doing so on its knees.
:/




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Old 02-18-2020, 05:48 PM   #75
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Even if it's the international markets that put it over the top, profit is profit.
It hasn't become profitable yet, so there is no profit to be had now or on the horizon. Right now, approaching weekend #3, it has to get about an additional 16ish million net box office to even make up its 85 million dollar production budget (and I'm even seeing it was a bit higher than that at 97.1 million?)... to say nothing of the marketing budget. I can't find any data on the marketing budget but yeah, a movie like this where marketing was everywhere... it's got to be at least 50 million. At least.

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It seems to me him that some overzealous fans were expecting a repeat of Joker's success. That was a different animal completely. BoP is a sequel to a divisive film that was a moderate BO success. It was always unlikely to be a smash hit.
Seems it was more the overzealous studio expecting a repeat of Joker's success. Whether by design or after the fact.
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