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GL Volume 4
View Poll Results: Green Lantern #63
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:57 PM   #251
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Yo.

it doesnt line up w/the pre-Rebirth stuff in that Hal had been inside the CPB 2x (or 3 if U count ED), and yet at no point was there ever any concern that Hal might be corrupted by the giant Earth parasite theyve kept inside of it for (however long an amount of time) the resevoir existed after construction.




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Old 03-11-2011, 11:00 PM   #252
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Yo.

it doesnt line up w/the pre-Rebirth stuff in that Hal had been inside the CPB 2x (or 3 if U count ED), and yet at no point was there ever any concern that Hal might be corrupted by the giant Earth parasite theyve kept inside of it for (however long an amount of time) the resevoir existed after construction.




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Well, considering that Parallax was dormant (i.e. had to be deliberately woken up) perhaps there wasn't much concern. As I recall, aside from the Willworld graphic novel (which posited that ALL GLs are sent into the battery as a test, and would be unlikely if Parallax was in there), every time Hal ended up inside the CPB the Guardians either had no say in the matter, or things were so bad there was little other choice. Who knows whether they had concern that he MIGHT accidentally wake Parallax? I don't think it is a blatant contradiction, especially given that they were trying to keep the nature of the yellow impurity a secret.

True, the Guardians deliberately imprisoning Sinestro in the battery makes no sense if they have a living entity of fear in there, but that's not what happened. He ended up in there by accident, and the battery ended up getting all but shut down, and this happened while there was only one Guardian left there (with memory gaps) to look over it. And when they came back, they used John Stewart as a guinea pig, having him charge off the newly restored battery under their watchful eyes. This led to him getting possessed by Sinestro, which would have been a relief for any Guardians worried about Sinestro being in there with Parallax. Perhaps they had him charge and watched to see if Parallax tried to escape. When he didn't, and Sinestro was gone from the battery, they figured they were safe again.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:50 PM   #253
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Yo.

yea, except that doesnt explain where da fuck 'llax was the times in recent times that the CPB was non-functioning and empty.




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Old 03-12-2011, 05:35 AM   #254
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Yo.

irongreen2814, Lover of Retcons...........unless it involves Gwen Stacy!




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LOL Or bringing back Carnage
I don't hate those stories, because they are retcons.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:45 PM   #255
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Yo.

*makes a note that IG now LOVES the story that created Gwens kiddies, fathered by Osborn.......*



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Old 03-12-2011, 03:06 PM   #256
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Yo.

*makes a note that IG now LOVES the story that created Gwens kiddies, fathered by Osborn.......*



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Good lord, I fucking hate that story. We've been over this, I just don't hate it because it's a retcon but rather a terrible story and a terrible idea.
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:32 PM   #257
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Yo.

ahhh, then I think U meant to say this:

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I don't hate those stories because they are retcons.
notice how taking out that comma changes how yur reply reads??

quick, somebody get me a grammar nazi badge!!!





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Old 03-17-2011, 01:47 AM   #258
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yea, except that doesnt explain where da fuck 'llax was the times in recent times that the CPB was non-functioning and empty.
Parallax's whereabouts:

GL v2 222 - The GLC "kills" Sinestro, his soul enters the battery. Sinestro takes over the impurity of the battery (Parallax).
GL v2 224 - The battery partially explodes and only retains partial functionality, with Sinestro still inside (as seen later in Mosaic)
GL v3 50 - Hal enters the battery, and Parallax latches onto him, and exits the battery with him as he explodes it.

Parallax was with Hal from GL v3 50 to Rebirth.
At the end of Rebirth, the Guardians put him back inside the CPB.
In Sinestro Corps War he was freed, though at the end of that story was divided into each of the 4 Earth GLs lanterns.
In Blackest Night Hal set him free so that they could bond again to battle the Spectre.

Ever since then, Parallax has been with Krona.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:06 AM   #259
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Except I haven't been saying all revision/evolution should stop. Are you somehow equating taking issue with how a specific change was handled with saying nothing should EVER change?
Not at all. Our disagreement stems over the fact that Johns is adding new backstory to Krona and the Guardians, while also making notable revisions too.

I've pointed out that the primary beats of Krona's story (the time-viewer experiment and his resulting expulsion) are intact in the new take. Though revised, certainly - the Guardians apparently organized sometime before that experiment. So now we have a bit of a mystery on our hands; why did the Guardians form up in the current canon? The end result is some new stuff, some old stuff, and a story we've yet to see.

And keep in mind, Krona was used in exactly 2 storylines prior to Crisis in 1985. Important stories - 2 of my favorite GL stories, in fact. But the important beats from those stories are still relevant, but have been revised to create more backstory, mythology.

And yet...most of this thread is decrying the fact that Johns has made changes (and even changes to changes). And our side discussion regarding the acceptable degree to which things have been changed.

That's the pattern. As if the amount of canonical change is somehow intrinsic to the quality of the story. It isn't. Ergo my question about what limits we seek to place on revision.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:04 PM   #260
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Yo.

yea, except that doesnt explain where da fuck 'llax was the times in recent times that the CPB was non-functioning and empty.




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It was never COMPLETELY non-functioning prior to ET. At the end of Vol. 2 it was stabilized at a very low level of functionality, powering only a very few rings. And it wasn't empty, even in pre-Rebirth continuity, as it STILL contained Sinestro's spirit, as evidenced by the fact that it went into John after the Guardians returned and repaired the CPB.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:17 PM   #261
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I've pointed out that the primary beats of Krona's story (the time-viewer experiment and his resulting expulsion) are intact in the new take.
I'm not sure that's true. We saw what SEEMED like his expulsion PRIOR to his time-viewer experiment (Ganthet talking about Krona's preoccupation with emotion- which was clearly the sticking point, and proximate cause of his expulsion- and Krona talking about his time-viewer experiment as something not YET undertaken, followed by the arrival of the rest of the Guardians with their Manhunter enforcers). We still don't know exactly when that experiment took place, but it apparently was AFTER he was ALREADY on the outs with the Guardians, who already existed, and already had a police force in the Manhunters, who took part in their original confrontation with Krona. So basically, all that remains is the FACT of his experiment (I assume. We haven't SEEN it in this revised history, so can we really be sure that it hasn't been written out as well?) but it no longer has any relevance to the origin of the Guardians, or their decision to create a police force. Or even to their decision to create a living police force, as that switch was caused by Krona sabotaging the Manhunters, not as a reaction to his experiment. So his time-viewing experiment is now basically irrelevant to GL history, more a side story, a tangent, something performed by Krona while already on the outs with the pre-existent Guardians of the Universe and their pre-existent police force, the Manhunters.

Not a minor change, and not, IMHO, leaving the "primary beats" intact at all.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:31 PM   #262
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And yet...most of this thread is decrying the fact that Johns has made changes (and even changes to changes). And our side discussion regarding the acceptable degree to which things have been changed.

That's the pattern. As if the amount of canonical change is somehow intrinsic to the quality of the story. It isn't. Ergo my question about what limits we seek to place on revision.
I have not intended to focus on the AMOUNT of change, but more on the TYPE of change, and how that change is HANDLED. IMHO, you could make what effectively amounts to the same LEVEL of change, but depending on how you handle it, it could be good or bad. I am generally opposed to the "write a completely new history that conflicts with the original, and just expect everybody, readers AND characters, to treat it as if that is the way it has always been" method. I far prefer the "fit in new information in the GAPS of the previous history, yet keep what we had as intact as possible, and make attempts to explain any discrepancies IN STORY" method. This seems more like the first, and is particularly grating to me because it seems so unnecessary, since the only thing keeping it from being the second method is the insistence on casting Krona in the main role, when a newly created character could have filled the role MUCH more smoothly. Using Krona is the whole reason that we now have NO remaining origin for the Guardians of the Universe, and NO remaining explanation for their decision to create a police force in the first place. And it relegates Krona's time-experiment, once critical to the history of the GLC, to a position of near-irrelevance, as it had no part in EITHER of those origins, or even in the switch to a living police force.
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:03 PM   #263
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Not to mention that Krona's experiment also created the antimatter universe. Which, IIRC, has been rather important on many occasions...
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Old 03-19-2011, 05:56 PM   #264
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I'm not sure that's true. We saw what SEEMED like his expulsion PRIOR to his time-viewer experiment (Ganthet talking about Krona's preoccupation with emotion- which was clearly the sticking point, and proximate cause of his expulsion- and Krona talking about his time-viewer experiment as something not YET undertaken, followed by the arrival of the rest of the Guardians with their Manhunter enforcers). We still don't know exactly when that experiment took place, but it apparently was AFTER he was ALREADY on the outs with the Guardians, who already existed, and already had a police force in the Manhunters, who took part in their original confrontation with Krona. So basically, all that remains is the FACT of his experiment (I assume. We haven't SEEN it in this revised history, so can we really be sure that it hasn't been written out as well?)
Krona referenced the experiment at the end of GL 60:

They cast me out not only because I tried to discover the secret of creation--but because I felt joy in doing so. They labelled me a pariah and thought me imprisoned forever.

The next page has a very Gil Kane-esque drawing of Krona's experiment as a flashback. So it's all still there; just the emotional / entity component is added in (which is surely why they also sport white lantern symbols, pre-experiment).

Even the fact that he was on the outs with the Guardians is from GL 40; in that story they knew, beforehand, what he was up to. A lone Guardian comes to him and tries to pursuade him to stop his shenanigans. Johns even included that scene - making Ganthet the Guardian who tries to pursuade Krona. (Pretty clever)

So of course it's still relevant history; otherwise Johns wouldn't be referencing/updating those events.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:01 PM   #265
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Not to mention that Krona's experiment also created the antimatter universe.
That, sir, is an evil - a dreaded retcon.

We dare not speak of such evil. Retcons are sin. Pure EVIL! They say if you look retcons in the eye, you'll go blind!

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:23 PM   #266
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I am generally opposed to the "write a completely new history that conflicts with the original, and just expect everybody, readers AND characters, to treat it as if that is the way it has always been" method. I far prefer the "fit in new information in the GAPS of the previous history, yet keep what we had as intact as possible, and make attempts to explain any discrepancies IN STORY" method.
I respect that; used to feel that way too. But I think it's unrealistic at this point. Important details get changed over time in even the most sacred myths - whether it's Greek legends, Arthurian myth or the modern superhero.

Especially so since superheroes were written for kids, so the logic, history and even tone needs to be rethough as time wears on to keep them modern.

To be clear, I really prefer the pre-Crisis continuity for most of DC's characters. GL especially. But I also understand the deal: That era is gone, and they've got to rethink and re-adapt old stories and situations. Come up with new twists on old themes. Similarly, the post-Crisis era is gone too.

But the mad Guardian that does the time viewer experiment and becomes the rogue Guardian is Krona. It's still him. There's some details that are different, but he's still that guy. It's kind of like First Flight and the yellow element, and the Qwardians who give Sinestro his ring. All that was different from the comics, but faithful enough to play the same basic function.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:31 PM   #267
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I read the events, I am surprised by all these changes but I am pleased with the advanced.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:20 PM   #268
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Yo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandor_Clegane View Post
Krona referenced the experiment at the end of GL 60:

They cast me out not only because I tried to discover the secret of creation--but because I felt joy in doing so. They labelled me a pariah and thought me imprisoned forever.

The next page has a very Gil Kane-esque drawing of Krona's experiment as a flashback. So it's all still there; just the emotional / entity component is added in (which is surely why they also sport white lantern symbols, pre-experiment).

Even the fact that he was on the outs with the Guardians is from GL 40; in that story they knew, beforehand, what he was up to. A lone Guardian comes to him and tries to pursuade him to stop his shenanigans. Johns even included that scene - making Ganthet the Guardian who tries to pursuade Krona. (Pretty clever)

So of course it's still relevant history; otherwise Johns wouldn't be referencing/updating those events.
actually, by the looks of it Krona doing the great universal "peek-a-boo" seems like it'll be the FINAL straw, whereas b4 his shit was just questionable, and not for nuthin' the appearance of the MHs kinda throws a monkey wrench in the works since they were a product of Kronas act, and yet *now* it looks like they were concieved independent of it.




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Old 03-21-2011, 02:03 PM   #269
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Not to mention that the Manhunters were powered by green lantern batteries before the Corps existed, and we also saw this earlier in Johns' run. The Manhunter action figures still include batteries, too.

The pre-Corps Guardians sport the white symbol so that DC can sell action figures of them.
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