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Old 02-19-2014, 09:50 PM   #26
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Ah, but the fact that they are still buying them makes whether they are happy with them irrelevant from a business standpoint. There is no point in devoting resources to improve a product for the sake of people that are already buying it and likely will continue to do so regardless. Their focus is, logically, doing what it takes to bring in NEW readers, since so many of the existing ones seem determined to buy the product whether they like it or not.

Of course, evidence suggests that they aren't doing a stellar job at bringing in new readers, either. But if they want to figure out how best to do that, looking at the preferences of existing readers probably isn't the best place to start...
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:54 PM   #27
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I think the real problem is that they don't know how to get people who AREN'T reading comics to read comics. In all honesty I don't really know how to do that, either, but if all they focus on is getting the people who DO read comics to read a particular comic (or group of comics) then an overall decline in sales is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:57 PM   #28
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Yeah, it makes no sense to me why both DC and Marvel practically go out of their way to avoid bringing in new readers (especially kids and women).
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:10 PM   #29
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Couple things to add to the current discussion.

(1) In interviews creators sometimes suggest that they respond to fan requests (e.g., a lot of people at conventions told me they want to see Dark Star, so I thought why not...). I guess they could be lying, but I doubt it. Of course, that's different than tailoring your writing based on how many people are complaining online.

(2) Actually, sales aren't so great. They're significantly lower than at Johns' height of popularity. However, that drop started before Johns left.
That said, I'm not sure how much DC responds to dropping sales beyond cancelling the title and creating another Batman book.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:45 PM   #30
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Couple things to add to the current discussion.

(1) In interviews creators sometimes suggest that they respond to fan requests (e.g., a lot of people at conventions told me they want to see Dark Star, so I thought why not...). I guess they could be lying, but I doubt it. Of course, that's different than tailoring your writing based on how many people are complaining online.
Right. Considering the odd fan request for something, like a character showing up, is a lot different than considering fan criticisms about, say, how a character that is already there is being written. In one case they are essentially asking for a favor, in the other they are telling them they are doing their job wrong.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 AM   #31
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:18 AM   #32
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I think there is a catch 22 problem. See if a comic does well then WB gives consideration to a movie.And a movie will bring in new fans. HoweverIf new fans aren't already reading the comics then the property goes under WB's notice. It is a vicious cycle. the only way to break it is to step out of the box and try to get fans to read the book the old fassion way. Writting good stories with good art,and proper promotion,then word of mouth will spread. I can't tell you how many shitty movies and comics I have given a shot because some friend recomended it.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:38 AM   #33
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I think the real problem is that they don't know how to get people who AREN'T reading comics to read comics. In all honesty I don't really know how to do that, either, but if all they focus on is getting the people who DO read comics to read a particular comic (or group of comics) then an overall decline in sales is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
I believe that would take much more aggressive advertising for the products. From my experience, generally speaking, comic books are by and large advertised to people who already read them. Tailoring the books to a wider audience of people is only halfway doing things, and could even be detrimental. Because what good is it if the people DC is tailoring the books to aren't even aware they're doing it? Furthermore, changing the books could upset some of the established customers who like things the way they are, and if there is no influx of new fans to offset that... well...

The problem with comics is a general lack of visibility. I think most people know they exist, but they don't often see them and they're not seeing them advertised, so they're not buying them or even thinking about buying them, even if they do like superheroes. Of course, advertising costs money, so I imagine making progress with this issue is easier said than done. If we are to see much advancement regarding growing the comics audience --like something to turn the tide-- I estimate it will be in the ever growing and much more accessible digital market and not the boutique stores. When will that happen (if it does)? Dunno.' Getting a lot of people interested may require some comic franchise to become a monstrously huge hit that spawns imitators. Something like what Pokemon was in the late '90s and early '00s. Some real game changing thing.

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Old 02-20-2014, 01:50 PM   #34
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I believe that would take much more aggressive advertising for the products. From my experience, generally speaking, comic books are by and large advertised to people who already read them. . .
That is a strange quirk of the market, though I think it's shared by other print media. I see very few ads for magazine and newspapers out of magazines and newspapers.

That said, how cool would it be to see a full poster at a bus stop "Read Green Lantern comics"?
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:39 PM   #35
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Why cant they do both tell great stories stick to canon and sell alot of books? The customer is always right.
A good writer doesn't give readers what they want - but what they need. Whenever a writer listens to the fans too much, it almost always turns to shit.
Readers need to be surprised, excited, hooked. And you can't do that if you give them what they ask for every single month.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:43 PM   #36
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A good writer doesn't give readers what they want - but what they need. Whenever a writer listens to the fans too much, it almost always turns to shit.
Readers need to be surprised, excited, hooked. And you can't do that if you give them what they ask for every single month.
Agreed. And something I'll add is a writer needs to be inspired to write a story. What's the point in creating any type of art, even a piece about a comic book superhero if there's no true inspiration behind it? Nothing worse than uninspired dreck, that's trying to pander to the fans.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:52 PM   #37
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A good writer doesn't give readers what they want - but what they need. Whenever a writer listens to the fans too much, it almost always turns to shit.
Readers need to be surprised, excited, hooked. And you can't do that if you give them what they ask for every single month.
That's true to a certain extent (which I assume is why you used the qualifier "too much"), but I think it is possible to give them SOMETHING they ask for, yet still surprise and excite them. You can't let them dictate everything to you, but if people say they want to see "character X" you can give them that without sacrificing excitement and surprise. If they say they want to see "character X" in "storyline Y", with "Hero Z" reacting in "manner W", and you follow that blueprint then, yes, you've sacrificed too much control, and the result will likely be disappointing.

And it certainly seems like it should be possible to identify cases where you have been giving them something that they neither want NOR need, though obviously not simply by listening to a handful of them...
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:57 PM   #38
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That's true to a certain extent (which I assume is why you used the qualifier "too much"), but I think it is possible to give them SOMETHING they ask for, yet still surprise and excite them.
That's definitely the winning formula. And to bring it back to the GL Universe, I think it's why John's run from Rebirth to Sinestro Corps War was so universally loved by the fans. You could tell that it was a story he was truly inspired to create, it just had that feeling to it. Yet, he was giving fans what they wanted from GL. It was a perfect marriage, and I think it's glaringly obvious that inspiration went out the window post-Blackest Night.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:10 PM   #39
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A good writer doesn't give readers what they want - but what they need. Whenever a writer listens to the fans too much, it almost always turns to shit.
Readers need to be surprised, excited, hooked. And you can't do that if you give them what they ask for every single month.
When all the customer is asking for is a good story, good art and less retcons I still think the customer is always right.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:25 PM   #40
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Yet, he was giving fans what they wanted from GL.
If fans wanted constant retcons and nonsensical retellings of the exact same story, then they've reaped what they've sown.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:59 PM   #41
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You can't let the fans write the book for you.But there is something to be said about panderingto fans,It works pretty awesome for Batman. I want a writter to supprise me,but it seems like writters go out of thier way to create a "new thing instead" of building on the already sound foundation that they were paid for.

If it were my ship to run. I would hol a year meeting that all the writters and artist of respected GL related books. we would set a guide line of the things that need to happen,and let the Writter take decide how it gets there. I think our current problem is that we have a writter that dose not know a whole lot about the Character he is writting. Just being a good writter is not good enough. You need to know the character and you need to like the character. I would prefer love,but these days it seems we must take what we can get.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:01 PM   #42
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I'd reintroduce classic non-emotional spectrum villains.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:09 PM   #43
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That's been along time coming. Remember when John's did that? We saw Shark,a new Tattoed man,Hector,Evil Star. I like some of the other corps,but I would love to see some old faces and find out what they have been up to while all this corps drama has gone down.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:23 PM   #44
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I'd reintroduce classic non-emotional spectrum villains.
Agreed. And gimme GOLDFACE. I used to dig that bitch.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:32 PM   #45
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I want to see somone try to make the real lame characters cool. like Javelin,or that group of evil construction workers. Boy did those guys suck.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:00 AM   #46
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When all the customer is asking for is a good story, good art and less retcons I still think the customer is always right.
"Good" is subjective. And some retcons were praised by the fans, most of them in Rebirth. It's not that easy to get a feeling for which retcons will be accepted and which of them won't.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:49 AM   #47
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That is also true. I stick buy that most of the retcons were worth while. I personally like a man being without fear,but I can sacrafice that for a Sinestro Corps. Truth fully Goeff could have just chucked all of Ron's stuff to the weeds. Instead he tried to rearange it so we could keep the former Green Lantern with his retcons,and I am glad that he did despite that Hal nor Kyle are living up to thier potential at this moment.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:59 AM   #48
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That's been along time coming. Remember when John's did that? We saw Shark,a new Tattoed man,Hector,Evil Star. I like some of the other corps,but I would love to see some old faces and find out what they have been up to while all this corps drama has gone down.
See, Johns wasn't that bad after all! At the end of the day he may have fizzled out at the end but who wouldn't? He did some cool shit and reintroduce old villains!

Yeah, I think some old faces is long overdue.
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Agreed. And gimme GOLDFACE. I used to dig that bitch.
They could easily pull that off! I just hope they don't try to make them too trendy though and just make them look like complete twats (I'm looking at you New 52 Mr Freeze!)
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I want to see somone try to make the real lame characters cool. like Javelin,or that group of evil construction workers. Boy did those guys suck.
That could work. Like in Arrow, they've taken some gay as shit villains (Count Vertigo and Brother Blood for example) and made them fucking great! Javelin could easily be done, just give him high tech gear.

I think Effigy and Major Force are due for a return, that'd be great!
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:41 PM   #49
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That is a strange quirk of the market, though I think it's shared by other print media. I see very few ads for magazine and newspapers out of magazines and newspapers.

That said, how cool would it be to see a full poster at a bus stop "Read Green Lantern comics"?
Heh, yeah. It would be cool to see short cartoons as Youtube ads (you know, the ones that sometimes come on before videos) that advertise some of the trades. That would be a pretty good and reasonable start, I think. It would be neat if DC could partner up with comiXology and have a 'Buy them here,' message and offer free samples, too. Like maybe the first issue (or chapter) of a trade is free.

There is great advertising for some of the comic book characters, with these huge movies and whatnot going on, but I think the people need to be directed more toward the comic books themselves.

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Old 02-21-2014, 06:21 PM   #50
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That could work. Like in Arrow, they've taken some lame as shit villains
Fixed that for you.
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