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Old 03-05-2011, 04:46 AM   #1
LanternAlgae
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Default What if Kyle actually framed Major Force?

Do we really know that Major Force killed Alex?

What if Kyle actually killed her, stuffed her in the fridge, and used some form of Oan hypnosis to convince Major Force that he did it.

Think about it... a lot of women die around Kyle.

He could be a serial killer.
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Old 03-05-2011, 05:23 AM   #2
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This is now the only canon I accept. I've seen the light from this clever wit.

Edit: What IS the actual kill count for women that have died around Kyle? Is it seriously only 4? One of them didn't even die to further his story or for any purposes having to do with Kyle (Donna) but is usually lumped in the list anyway.

Last edited by missferris; 03-05-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:26 AM   #3
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Except that the issue clearly shows Force killing her. Kyle isn't even at home when it happens. He leaves the apartment and ends up in the future. We then cut to Major Force entering the apartment under the pretense that he is delivering flowers. The card says "I'm going to kill you", Force enters, strangles her on panel, quips "I'm hungry", and when Kyle returns, he finds the note "surprise for you in the fridge"...

And could we please stop with that lame urban legend that an extraordinary amount of women die around him? A lot more people die around Batman. Or Spider-Man. Or Wolverine. And nobody thinks that it's funny to call them serial killers.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
Except that the issue clearly shows Force killing her. Kyle isn't even at home when it happens. He leaves the apartment and ends up in the future. We then cut to Major Force entering the apartment under the pretense that he is delivering flowers. The card says "I'm going to kill you", Force enters, strangles her on panel, quips "I'm hungry", and when Kyle returns, he finds the note "surprise for you in the fridge"...

And could we please stop with that lame urban legend that an extraordinary amount of women die around him? A lot more people die around Batman. Or Spider-Man. Or Wolverine. And nobody thinks that it's funny to call them serial killers.
Kyle fans will never get tired of fridge jokes, though! Just as they will forever think it is funny to think of cliched sitcom scenarios regarding Sinestro being Kyle's father-in-law. Let them have this.

Canon pretty much constantly lampshades the fact and has Kyle angst over it (in the ways Daredevil has), so it's kind of the narrative's fault and a case of writers interacting with fandom perception too much. Character memes and all of that.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:42 PM   #5
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Well it's serial killer kyle or pedophile hal. Take your pick.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:14 PM   #6
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Well it's serial killer kyle or pedophile hal. Take your pick.
Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen! Our heroes!
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:19 PM   #7
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Well, Kyle is obviously not a serial killer.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:09 PM   #8
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Yes Kyle is not a serial killer....the deaths take place too far apart for it to be labeled serial.....Habitual? Maybe. Only time will tell......Natu better watch her back
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:18 PM   #9
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Somebody make sure Brad Meltzer doesn't see this thread!!!
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:03 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lantern A-train View Post
Well it's serial killer kyle or pedophile hal. Take your pick.
i like them both equally
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
And could we please stop with that lame urban legend that an extraordinary amount of women die around him? A lot more people die around Batman. Or Spider-Man. Or Wolverine. And nobody thinks that it's funny to call them serial killers.
Batman and Spiderman have been around decades and decades and existed in every possible medium you could imagine. Every potential story line has happened.

Kyle Rayner had been around for about five minutes before they went straight to gratuitous and graphic violence against an innocent and "non-combatant" character.

Kyle Rayner's "birth" as a character was born out of crass exploitation of violence and the first really important thing that ever happened to him continued that theme.

And no... it's NOT the same thing as Uncle Ben getting shot because of Peter.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay View Post
Batman and Spiderman have been around decades and decades and existed in every possible medium you could imagine. Every potential story line has happened.

Kyle Rayner had been around for about five minutes before they went straight to gratuitous and graphic violence against an innocent and "non-combatant" character.
I like your suspiciously specific details that are utterly unimportant to the debate. Yes, part of Kyle's origin was the death of a person close to him. I'm sure Spider-Man and Batman didn't have anything like that at all.

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Kyle Rayner's "birth" as a character was born out of crass exploitation of violence


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And no... it's NOT the same thing as Uncle Ben getting shot because of Peter.
Of course it isn't. Because you say so, mein Führer.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
I like your suspiciously specific details that are utterly unimportant to the debate. Yes, part of Kyle's origin was the death of a person close to him. I'm sure Spider-Man and Batman didn't have anything like that at all.
It's totally important in that YOU tried to draw a comparison between the three characters.

I'm merely pointing out that sample size makes it a poor choice for comparison.

There are more murders in more populated areas... there are more murders in the lives of characters that have been around longer.

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Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
You can roll your eyes all you want... but the fact remains that Kyle Rayner was introduced on the heels of a gratuitously and shockingly violent storyline.

At the time there was no "Parallax the Fear Demon". Hal Jordan simply up and murdered many of his closest friends within the Green Lantern Corps, killed Sinestro and then watched as the Guardians killed themselves.

That's the "mood" out of which Kyle Rayner emerged. And then right on the heels of that... his girlfriend is murdered in a truly gruesome and gratuitous manner that demonstrates a level of detailed sadism that you don't frequently find in comic books. Deaths are one thing.... stuffing a carcass in the fridge..... quite another.

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Of course it isn't. Because you say so, mein Führer.
Mein Fuhrer? If that was an attempt at humor then I sincerely applaud you. If it wasn't... well then I sincerely applaud you for being delightfully obtuse.

But I'd like to think that it was meant to be funny given all the past conversations between you and Bruce Castle and others regarding your sense of humor...

BUT ANYWAY......

It isn't the same thing. Nor is it the same thing as Bruce Wayne's parents being gunned down in front of him.

AND HERE'S WHY!!!!!!!!

Both Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker were witnesses to the deaths of their loved ones. Both Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker decided to become heroes AFTER and as a DIRECT RESULT of those deaths.

"With great power comes great responsibility"
"Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot"

Kyle Rayner had already decided to be a superhero. He had already made his public appearances and (somewhat) "announced" himself as Green Lantern. Alex's death was the first real consequence of his actions as Green Lantern.

Violence and evil didn't motivate him to devote his life to righting wrongs. They were simply the occupational hazards of the new lifestyle that he had embraced somewhat naively.


So...

Is it unfair that Kyle has the playful reputation of being a "girlfriend killer"? Sure. But is it really so hard to see where it's born out of and just get in on the joke? It's not like we're maligning a real person who has children that have to worry about what the bad bad men are saying about their daddy.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay View Post
It's totally important in that YOU tried to draw a comparison between the three characters.
In the twelve years between Kyle's introduction and Infinite Crisis, three people close to him died (Alex, Donna, Jade). Two of them (Donna, Jade) came back to life. Kyle wasn't responsible for any of those deaths.
In the twelve years after Spider-Man's introdcution, four people close to him died (Uncle Ben, Captain Stacy, Gwen Stacy, Norman Osborn). Of those, only one (Osborn) came back to life. Peter was directly involved with all of these deaths. He didn't catch the burglar, Captain Stacy was killed by falling debris from a building damaged in a fight between Spidey and Dr. Octopus, Spidey's web snaps Gwen's neck, and Spidey dodging at the very last moment led to Norman impaling himself on his Goblin Glider.

And yet somehow people keep calling Kyle a serial killer. Yes, mostly as unfunny jokes, but when morons actually start rewriting history to figure out how Kyle could have been responsible, I have to step in and say something.

Quote:
I'm merely pointing out that sample size makes it a poor choice for comparison.

There are more murders in more populated areas... there are more murders in the lives of characters that have been around longer.
And yet there aren't more murders in twelve years of Green Lantern books than there were in Spidey's books.

Quote:
You can roll your eyes all you want... but the fact remains that Kyle Rayner was introduced on the heels of a gratuitously and shockingly violent storyline.

At the time there was no "Parallax the Fear Demon". Hal Jordan simply up and murdered many of his closest friends within the Green Lantern Corps, killed Sinestro and then watched as the Guardians killed themselves.
All with the intent of undoing those murders once he got to the Central Power Battery. That's a hugely important factor that keeps getting swept under the rug.

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That's the "mood" out of which Kyle Rayner emerged.
You've got it backwards.
They first came up with the new character and then wrote the story around that. In fact, Kyle already appears in #48, before the killings start. We would have gotten Kyle anyway, regardless of the tone of Emerald Twilight.
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And then right on the heels of that... his girlfriend is murdered in a truly gruesome and gratuitous manner that demonstrates a level of detailed sadism that you don't frequently find in comic books.
Hands around her neck. Yeah, I'm shaking. Ever read an early Image book? Or early Ninja Turtles? EC Comics? Even the X-Men books of the time were more violent than that. And remember Carnage? Or how about Animal Man's wife and kids?
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Deaths are one thing.... stuffing a carcass in the fridge..... quite another.
It wasn't more gruesome than other books published at the time.

Quote:
It isn't the same thing. Nor is it the same thing as Bruce Wayne's parents being gunned down in front of him.

AND HERE'S WHY!!!!!!!!

Both Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker were witnesses to the deaths of their loved ones. Both Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker decided to become heroes AFTER and as a DIRECT RESULT of those deaths.

"With great power comes great responsibility"
"Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot"

Kyle Rayner had already decided to be a superhero. He had already made his public appearances and (somewhat) "announced" himself as Green Lantern. Alex's death was the first real consequence of his actions as Green Lantern.

Violence and evil didn't motivate him to devote his life to righting wrongs. They were simply the occupational hazards of the new lifestyle that he had embraced somewhat naively.
But his approach to everything changed a lot after that. Just like Peter had appeared in public before and "announced" himself as the wrestler Spider-Man, and then changed his modus operandi completely after Ben's death.
Before Alex' death, Kyle was an obnoxious, cocky guy a bit too sure of himself. Alex' death showed him that his actions ahve consequences, and that he has to carefully reconsider his actions.

Quote:
Is it unfair that Kyle has the playful reputation of being a "girlfriend killer"? Sure. But is it really so hard to see where it's born out of and just get in on the joke? It's not like we're maligning a real person who has children that have to worry about what the bad bad men are saying about their daddy.
With a fictional character, his reputation is all he has.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:55 AM   #15
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I would like to say though, that Hal's intent has nothing to do with the matter because he didn't undo all that he had done. Intent doesn't really matter when you become a mass murderer to get there.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:23 AM   #16
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Kyle is just bad luck for women. Alex, Donna, Jade, his Mom, that green skinned ex-GL, the female Lantern who was killed by Kryb, etc...

If I was a woman, I'd stay away from the guy if I had even the slightest idea of his track record.

~KL~
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:10 AM   #17
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You all get that I was just goofing, right?
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:18 AM   #18
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Naysay is right, as always.

Also, did someone just use Fuher against a jewish dude? THESE CRAZY BOARDS. Seriously.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:11 PM   #19
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Getting back on point, what about Alex's sister, who slapped Kyle when he returned to her grave. The way she was just waiting there for Kyle.. I think she has something to hide. Maybe she was having an affair with Major Force?
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:10 AM   #20
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If Kyle framed Major Force, then that would really be messed up.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:19 AM   #21
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Yes. Yes, Weirdo, that is certainly a possibility. Good that you mention it, we hadn't thought of it yet.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:10 AM   #22
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Yes. Yes, Weirdo, that is certainly a possibility. Good that you mention it, we hadn't thought of it yet.
With all due respect... is there a reason why you're such a douche?

(Note that I said "with all due respect," which allows me to say anything I want - its in the Geneva Convention).
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:04 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Michael Heide View Post
Yes, mostly as unfunny jokes, but when morons actually start rewriting history to figure out how Kyle could have been responsible, I have to step in and say something.
Did you seriously not understand that this thread was ALSO one of those jokes?

Cus... like...

I don't think you did.

I don't know if it's the language barrier or something else... but holy shit dude.

Unless you're attempting to continue the joke by pretending to take it seriously....

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Or does that fly over your head to?
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:31 PM   #24
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Donna died in the Titans/Teen Titans crossover written by Judd Winick. If I'm not mistaken Kyle wasn't even there. That's like blaming Nightwing for Jason's death. Its retarded.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:05 PM   #25
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Donna died in the Titans/Teen Titans crossover written by Judd Winick. If I'm not mistaken Kyle wasn't even there.
That's just what Kyle wants you to think. Sneaky one, that Kyle.
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