Saint Walker & JLA

[Sylent_Asassin Black Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Sylent_Asassin]

This is why I was so excited, and then let down, when McDuffie took over the comic, then had his run cut short. I liked his take on the JL cartoon - large cast, various heroes showcased. I liked his run on JLA, it was different and didn't revolve entirely around the A-listers, or the B-listers, he gave everyone more or less equal exposure.

The problem I had with that was he brought in characters without rhyme or reason and expected us to care. There were several episodes where characters just happened to be standing in the vicinity (Fire) so they came along on a mission. With no prior exposure or backstory, why should anyone that doesn't already know about the character care? Much of the JLU ended up being McDuffie, Timm and Tucker's personal favorites from their childhood thus alienating anyone that wasn't from that era.

[Marvelous Iggy God Of Turtles Find all posts View Profile Close Marvelous Iggy]

The problem I had with that was he brought in characters without rhyme or reason and expected us to care. There were several episodes where characters just happened to be standing in the vicinity (Fire) so they came along on a mission. With no prior exposure or backstory, why should anyone that doesn't already know about the character care? Much of the JLU ended up being McDuffie, Timm and Tucker's personal favorites from their childhood thus alienating anyone that wasn't from that era.

When James Robinson started his run, before I even read it I called it Junior JLA, but maybe it's just me but he has made me care about Donna, Jade, Starman, and Congrilla. That's what a writer should do with the JLA, when characters are introduced they should make you care about them in some fashion.

[Sylent_Asassin Black Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Sylent_Asassin]

When James Robinson started his run, before I even read it I called it Junior JLA, but maybe it's just me but he has made me care about Donna, Jade, Starman, and Congrilla. That's what a writer should do with the JLA, when characters are introduced they should make you care about them in some fashion.

Maybe I missed an issue somewhere when the roster was changed, but I don't remember ever being given a reason to care about Congorilla. During that time, I only cared about the characters I was familiar with.

[Sandor_Clegane Sinestro's Sparring Partner Find all posts View Profile Close Sandor_Clegane]

I love Saint Walker and this will DEFINITELY make me pick up JLA now at least to try it

Man, I love Saint Walker but I have no interest in the replacement League concept. Or Robinson's current output in general.

Ol' Walker makes it tempting though.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I'm in the camp in that the JLA doesn't need the big 7.

I prefer the big 7, but I also like it when the League consists of 3 to 4 of the big 7, and 3 to 4 B-listers. That always works because there are enough of the main guys to give the team credibility and not seem like a joke, and enough guys that aren't tied into other books that writers have to work around.

[Guest Close Zechs]

Henshaw is back!

Like the last time we saw him that got rid of him. Dude survived the Omega Beams and a black hole. Being Darth mauled is nothing but an early morning ritual of Hank's!

[ns2 Your Clash At Demonhead Find all posts View Profile Close ns2]

Maybe I missed an issue somewhere when the roster was changed, but I don't remember ever being given a reason to care about Congorilla. During that time, I only cared about the characters I was familiar with.

I think it was changed during/after Cry for Justice

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

I don't think it's an active decision to switch back and forth.

What? Flash, Green Arrow, Titans, JLA...Big name characters that had ridiculously BAD and/or BORING comics because editorial put a bunch of hacks on the writing and told them they couldn't do anything interesting because the characters had to follow a "path".

Robinson's creativity is limited by Didio, though.

Let's not limit this to one person. Call it editorial, because you don't know who tells James what he can and can't do. EVERY book has things it can and can't do. McDuffie couldn't handle the mandate with these characters, and Robinson started off with a whimper having most of his promised roster taken away from him. The team he has with him is (mostly) amazing on paper, but its not who the fans want to see because they have dealt with mediocrity for so long now. Now, as evidenced by this very thread, fans feel like the only way for the title to be good is to be reading the Big 7.

If a writer is good, he'll make lemonade out of lemons. And that includes having a shit-tacular artist.

Doesn't Johns have more weight than Didio, now, anyway? Didio might not like the Big Seven, but Johns is all about it, and about wanting Aquaman to lead the JLA.

NOT HARDLY. DiDio runs DC Comics, Johns is just a fan favorite writer. Comics belong to Dan DiDio and Jim [Lee]. Dan isn't against having the Big 7 in the comic, he's just trying to please everyone. When the 7 show up, then people will start bitching about how Wonder Woman should be "there", and how "Flash doesn't have time to play around with Starro when he's fighting the Rogue's elsewhere!" That's the business. You can't please everyone. And as you said, the title is going to sell regardless.

There's no real reason to bring all those characters together, especially when they aren't doing so hot on their own. How about we let Johns and Tomasi try to setup Hawkman, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman so when you start seeing them everywhere you'll actually care?

Once the big seven comes back i'll drop JLA, but I'm sure more people will pick it up. It will go from having good sales to being at the top, hopefully shoving all of this event stuff off the chart.

It'll be an event that brings them together and eventually an event to take them apart. C'est la vie.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

JAMES ROBINSON on the JLA's New Members

On Monday, DC revealed the cover for March's Justice League of America #55, showing a couple of surprise visitors to the book.

"Saint" Walker, the Blue Lantern introduced last year by Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis in Green Lantern, will now be a member of the JLA, and Cyborg-Superman will show up to fight Doomsday and a still-"Dark" Supergirl as part of the "Reign of Doomsday" crossover event.

The idea behind Dark Supergirl gets a little clearer in this week's Justice League of America #52, but Kara Zor-El will remain in her black attire through the "Reign of Doomsday" event and next year's Superman/Batman Annual #5, which Robinson is writing.

It's all part of Robinson's plan to show why the new Batman, Supergirl and other team members deserve the label "Justice League of America." While the book will experience an artist change after the departure of Mark Bagley, Robinson will continue to mold the group into a powerful team as they head toward an epic Eclipso story arc next year.

In fact, Robinson promises he's starting to build the type of long-form, multi-layered story that is familiar to readers of his acclaimed run on Starman.

In the first installment of a two-part interview about Justice League of America, we talk with Robinson about Mark Bagley, Saint Walker, Cyborg-Superman, and Dark Supergirl. (Check back tomorrow to hear more about his upcoming Eclipso arc, how The Shade fits into the story, and what readers can expect from the new regular artist.)

Newsarama: James, we just saw the cover to Issue #55, and DC announced Bro'Dee "Saint" Walker is joining the team. How did you end up deciding to add Saint Walker to the Justice League? Was this something you coordinated with Green Lantern writer Geoff Johns?

James Robinson: I actually wanted to obtain that character from Day 1 for the JLA, but I had to wait until it worked with the overall Green Lantern continuity. Geoff was very keen also that I use the character, so it was just a matter of waiting until the right time. When I first saw him, I immediately liked Walker and I saw him as a potential sort of – I don't know, an alien figure, in the way it would fit my team, in the way that J'onn J'onzz would fit the Big 7. But we had to wait for the right time, coordinating it with Brightest Day and everything else the character was doing with the Green Lantern titles. By this point in time, with all the different Lanterns on Earth going about doing their crime-stopping in the various ways that they do, it works now that Walker can be a part of the Justice League. So he's joining in Issue #55.

Nrama: We already know that the energy of hope that is wielded by Saint Walker and other Blue Lanterns interacts with the powers of the Green Lanterns. Will this be explored in conjunction with Jade?

Robinson: That's something it'll be interesting to see, won’t it? Just how does Saint Walker improve or change the powers of Jade? Because her powers are derived differently from the Green Lanterns. You'll see that Saint Walker and Jade will develop a sort of a link. But it will be an interesting, different dynamic from any other Blue Lantern with any other Green Lantern character. And who’s to say Jade’s powers won’t affect Walker’s too?

Nrama: Let's talk about the other surprise in the cover to Issue #55. You'll also have Cyborg-Superman showing up? Is this all part of the "Reign of Doomsday" crossover?

Robinson: Right. The Eclipso arc is beginning [with February's Issue #54], but even as it does, in Issue #55, Cyborg-Superman, Doomsday, and Supergirl will all be involved in their own struggle. And that will lead into next year’s Superman/Batman Annual.

Nrama: The Justice League issue is part of a crossover with a Steel one-shot, The Outsiders and Superboy. With Hank Henshaw showing up, after the involvement of Superboy, Steel, and the Eradicator in the "Reign of Doomsday" storyline, it's pretty obvious this ties into Reign of the Superman, doesn’t it?

Robinson: Yes. Absolutely.

Nrama: And Supergirl is still functioning as this "Dark" Supergirl in Issue #55?

Robinson: Yes. That issue will begin to explain what's going on with Dark Supergirl, and why she changed. We'll deal with that partly during Issue #55, then moreso in the Annual.

She actually isn't going to be an "evil" Dark Supergirl. It's just exploring the darker sides of her personalities, based upon the tragedy that's been around her, with the destruction of Krypton and everything else. She's lost her parents. She's seen them die. She's seen her entire planet die. So all of that is partly what's brought about Dark Supergirl.

But the initial reasons why you think she might have changed aren't really the reasons, obviously. There are surprises along the way.

What you'll see in Issue #55 is that, just as she's dealing with the things that may have caused the transformation, and while she's coming to terms with the horror of Krypton's destruction, she has to confront another horror from out of the collective past of Krypton, which is Doomsday. And then at the same time, on top of that, she has to deal with Cyborg-Superman.

You'll also see Starman shine – no pun intended – in the issue in terms of his ability at space combat, and we'll get to introduce Saint Walker. But you'll also see a lot of exploration of Supergirl and find out why she became Dark Supergirl.

Nrama: Let's talk about what's happening in Justice League of America right now, because Dark Supergirl just emerged. During this storyline, you've got the members of the Justice League stuck under a dome with the Crime Syndicate of America, dealing with the Omega Man in a real battle for their lives. What were your thoughts behind this arc?

Robinson: One of the things I wanted to show here is that these characters are a real Justice League. It's the idea that these guys, in theory, may be in a situation that's too big for them, but there's always a way that the good guys can win if they have the moral and the valor to do it. I want to show that Dick Grayson is always thinking like Batman, Jessie Quick can be as fast as she needs to be, Donna Troy can be as fierce and as awe-inspiring a fighter as she needs to be. And I’m also continuing to play up Jade's power, which will be a constant theme that will carry through other arcs. Especially for next arc, which is the Eclipso arc.

I know that, for a lot of people, it might seem this isn't the Justice League. For them it's the Big 7 or nobody. And I appreciate that. I’m very loyal to favorite lineups of certain teams myself, so I completely appreciate how some fans may feel. But at the same time, I wanted to show that whoever is in the Justice League of America, by virtue of being in that team, steps up and faces the world, and does what only the Justice League of America can do.

I also wanted to really focus on the five characters in my team that correspond to the Crime Syndicate the most. So for that reason, I eliminated Congorilla and Starman from the book for this arc and spun them off into their own one-shot — [the Starman/Congorilla special that comes out January 5th], which shows us what they're doing while all this is going on, and how it factors back into the dome that's around Washington, D.C., and how they're doing their bit to try to save their friends from the outside.

This is all part of a much bigger story. This is my first foray into the Crime Syndicate, but it isn't the last. Readers of my Starman series have seen me build a big, overriding storyline, and that's what I'm doing here with Justice League of America. All of what I'm doing with the Crime Syndicate, and the Omega Man, is a first salvo with these characters. They'll be coming back later for a much bigger role even than this one, in another storyline that I have cooking.

So that's the Omega arc currently underway. And for me it’s a bittersweet arc, because it's the last one that Mark Bagley will be doing. And ironically, maybe five minutes before you called, Mark sent in the artwork for the final page of Issue #53, which is the final part of that storyline, which is a beautiful final image.

[Michael Heide Heide Finition Find all posts View Profile Close Michael Heide]

Now, as evidenced by this very thread, fans feel like the only way for the title to be good is to be reading the Big 7.

It doesn't even have to be all seven of them. The Meltzer run had only four or five of the "Big 7", and it worked. I would even go as far as saying that you only need the Trinity (if the remaining slots are filled with interesting characters or characters that you make interesting). But the current League has not a single member of the "Big 7" (unless you count the Dick Grayson Batman), and that just isn't enough.

[Linterna Azul Major Force's Dinner Date Find all posts View Profile Close Linterna Azul]

lol , James "oh , I like goku , he will became a member of the JLA "
Walker will need a green lantern near to release his "fullpower mode"
I hope he doesn´t contradict the GL continuity

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

It doesn't even have to be all seven of them. The Meltzer run had only four or five of the "Big 7", and it worked. I would even go as far as saying that you only need the Trinity (if the remaining slots are filled with interesting characters or characters that you make interesting). But the current League has not a single member of the "Big 7" (unless you count the Dick Grayson Batman), and that just isn't enough.

and to that, I say what James Robinson just said...

I know that, for a lot of people, it might seem this isn't the Justice League. For them it's the Big 7 or nobody. And I appreciate that. I’m very loyal to favorite lineups of certain teams myself, so I completely appreciate how some fans may feel. But at the same time, I wanted to show that whoever is in the Justice League of America, by virtue of being in that team, steps up and faces the world, and does what only the Justice League of America can do.

[Michael Heide Heide Finition Find all posts View Profile Close Michael Heide]

If he wanted to show that, it seems like he's failing.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

If he wanted to show that, it seems like he's failing.

There's a difference between not showing them rising to the occassion and you being unimpressed by the situation. I like that they are facing the Syndicate and Eclipso. He knew that people would call them "The Replacement League" and "Titans 2.0" and shit like that. So why not make teh best of the situation by putting this team that is deemed by some as unworthy against the same threats that the big guns face? My problem with JLA right now isn't the roster(though I'm not thrilled with it at all) or the threats they face, its the writing and the art.

Andrew says it all the time, "James Robinson is an idea man." Most of his stories have excellent premises, and what he's trying to do with this team of Leaguers is no different. The problem is that he doesn't have a full grasp on ANY of these characters and he's been strapped with a piss poor art team. And because of that, the title suffers. But every time a new arc is shown in solicitations, I've always been interested...on paper. I'll be back to see what Brett Booth can do, but again while I truly believe he's "the man with the plan" his follow through needs a lot of work. I enjoyed his Superman/New Krypton stuff a lot, and hope JLA gets to that level soon.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

The problem with Robinson being an idea man is that what (argueably at best) seems like a good idea on paper doesn't turn out well in execution. His work on Starman and Golden Age was amazing, and he'll always hold a place in my fanboy heart for those books, but those books his JLA is NOT.

I think if he had more classic characters in the group and one or two of his trademark "ecclectic" characters, he might get more than an upturned nose from fans who are passing on his JLA. This roster is bad enough to make me almost miss the Detroit roster.