Why IS WW still part of the "Big 3"?

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I was looking at some promo art from DC of what has become the "Big 4". The trinity and Hal. This seems to be an ongoing effort by DC to recondition us to accept Hal Jordan in the exclusive group of A listers.

I'm fine with that and all, but it's really got me wondering...how does Wonder Woman even qualify to be IN this group anymore? Her book has never been a great or even good seller, she doesn't get any exposure in other media. Her pilot couldn't even get picked up. When was the last time you heard about a WW videogame or animated series?

I think it's time to toss her underperforming ass out of the club and accept Bruce, Clark, and Hal as the one true "Trinity" or "Big 3"!

[Robinson Guardian Of The Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Robinson]

She's female.

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

She's female.

Yup.

I'm surprised the push isn't to make Cyborg part of the Big 4.

[IonFan Forum Member Find all posts View Profile Close IonFan]

She's female.

what he said

[Michael Heide Heide Finition Find all posts View Profile Close Michael Heide]

Wonder Woman is one of the oldest DC characters. One that has been around for 70 years. Sure, her book doesn't sell as much as other titles, but it's still around. She survived the McCarthy era. She was a founding member of the Justice League. And not only is she a female superhero, but she is the first female superhero worth mentioning.
If being female was all she brought to the table, she never would have made it this far.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Wow this thread is sickening. Saying Wonder Woman's book has never been good is an opinion not a fact. And like it or not lantern fanatics, Wonder Woman is a fucking ICON and that's something not even Ryan Reynolds can make Green Lantern be. Wonder Woman sells more plastic folders than Green Lantern sells anything. Yes, she's fucking female and she's the best fucking female in comics. She's one of the most interesting CHARACTERS in superhero comics. A fucking videogame? A shitty movie tie-in videogame? THAT'S your basis for deserving of high status? Your favorite character only received one because of a movie! A movie that was panned by most of the WORLD. So yeah, while an insanely drastic take on Wonder Woman didn't make it as a NBC pilot that is no reflection on the character but on the minds behind the horrible premise and those who decided that was the right move to make. There are thousands of female characters in comics and none have ever come close to Wonder Woman's level. Why is that? Fuck, why is it that few MALE characters have ever come close to having the brand recognition that Wonder Woman has? She's been around 60 something years and has been on top since the start. Thinking Green Lantern is close to her league is ridiculous and thinking he(ANYONE OF THEM really) are worthy of dethroning is fucking laughable.

FUCK YEAH WONDER WOMAN

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I think GL already HAS dethroned her. DC is just too gunshy to take her underperforming ass off of promo material. Flash and GL have been around just as long as she has (longer actually). What does she offer OTHER than being a female and filling the need for a female spot? Her classic costume certainly hasn't stood the test of time with her bloomers and tiara. What a ghastly costume. At least somebody thought to update the golden age GL and Flash costumes. Her's should have been updated 50 years ago, not just now.

How many great Wonder Woman villains can you name?

Can anyone name one memorable Wonder Woman arc? Is there even one trade you can put in someone's hand to try out that will convert them?

Blah. She's only there because she's a woman, and nobody has the balls to demote her to the b list status she deseves. Flash and GL at least have people talking, they've outsold her for decades, and those book's mythologies are far more interesting. How many times SHOULD her book have been cancelled due to low sales but wasn't just because of her status in the DCU? I'd honestly put her at number 5. And if DC didn't drop the ball all the time with Aquaman for the last 20 years, I'd put her at #6.

[chivalrous Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close chivalrous]

How many great Wonder Woman villains can you name?

Can anyone name one memorable Wonder Woman arc? Is there even one trade you can put in someone's hand to try out that will convert them?

That's missing the point - look at Superman,bseides Lex Luthor, how many Superman villains could members of the non-comic-reading public name?
How many non-comic-readers can distinguish Flash from Flash Gordon?
How many members of the non-comic-reading public still mix up Green Lantern and Green Hornet?

Wonder Woman is an icon, whose image, much like like Batman and Superman, has transcended cultural boundaries such that people who have never seen a comic (let alone read one) or don't realise there's a difference between Marvel and DC (if they're even aware of their existence) can identify her.


You can suggest that Green Lantern's film may improve the awareness of his brand, but there are still plenty of people who could care less, or remain completely unaware of the latest action blockbuster - these people are still, for the most part, aware of Wonder Woman she's pretty much apart of Western cultural identity now.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

That's missing the point - look at Superman,bseides Lex Luthor, how many Superman villains could members of the non-comic-reading public name?
How many non-comic-readers can distinguish Flash from Flash Gordon?
How many members of the non-comic-reading public still mix up Green Lantern and Green Hornet?

Wonder Woman is an icon, whose image, much like like Batman and Superman, has transcended cultural boundaries such that people who have never seen a comic (let alone read one) or don't realise there's a difference between Marvel and DC (if they're even aware of their existence) can identify her.


You can suggest that Green Lantern's film may improve the awareness of his brand, but there are still plenty of people who could care less, or remain completely unaware of the latest action blockbuster - these people are still, for the most part, aware of Wonder Woman she's pretty much apart of Western cultural identity now.

I actually agree with most of what you just said. My main question is, how long does a book have to go on in the middle to bottom of the sales charts before someone decides her status is inflated? When was the last time Wonder Woman was in the top 10 list on a regular basis? And does she still have the pop culture name recognition she had 10 or 20 years ago? Does the average kid on the street even know who Wonder Woman IS anymore?

I still say Flash and GL are heavier hitters IN the industry, and very arguably OUTSIDE of it.

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

I still say Flash and GL are heavier hitters IN the industry, and very arguably OUTSIDE of it.

Are you kidding me? The average person thinks Green Lantern is suppose to be black and they have no idea who the Flash is. Wonder Woman on the other hand is an instantly recognizable icon around the world.

Look I agree with you that WW's status in the trinity feels a bit forced but the fact remains that she is an icon and no other DC hero besides Bats/Supes comes close to her, hell if I'd say she's in the top 5 most recognizable heroes behind Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine.

She might not have the stories to justify her place (even the Perez stuff which most people consider to be the holy grail of WW I consider to just be good), but at this point it's kind of irrelevant, that's how ingrained she is in the public conscious. When you ask people who the top 3 DC heroes are they're probably going to mention her.

And it would be foolish for DC to stop promoting her, she is the most recognizable female in comics, she's completely unique in that aspect. Maybe Batgirl comes close, but that's only because of her association with Batman and Marvel just doesn't have an answer to her.

So maybe WW doesn't deserve to be put on the same pedestal as Batman and Superman, but no one else in DC even comes close.

[Bolerathon Avant Guardian Find all posts View Profile Close Bolerathon]

WW deserves her spot in the big 3.

[chivalrous Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close chivalrous]

hell if I'd say she's in the top 5 most recognizable heroes behind Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine.

I wouldn't put Wolverine in there.
For the same reasons as I mentioned for Wonder Woman, Hulk has pretty much instant recognition across cultural boundaries and ought to take his spot.
Wolverine might make #7 behind Captain America.

X-Men movies and cartoons have helped raised Wolverine's profile, but I still hear people talking about 'Wolf-man' if they recognise him at all.

[Keyser Soze Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Keyser Soze]

I don't think the question we should be asking is, "Why is Wonder Woman still so iconic and widely acknowledged as one of DC's top 3 if her comics underperform in sales and aren't all that great?"

The question we should be asking is, "Why isn't DC producing a Wonder Woman comic worthy of the character's iconic status?"

[chivalrous Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close chivalrous]

I don't think the question we should be asking is, "Why is Wonder Woman still so iconic and widely acknowledged as one of DC's top 3 if her comics underperform in sales and aren't all that great?"

The question we should be asking is, "Why isn't DC producing a Wonder Woman comic worthy of the character's iconic status?"

Probably because Joss 'the writer of strong, interesting, intelligent female characters' Whedon isn't writing it

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

The question we should be asking is, "Why isn't DC producing a Wonder Woman comic worthy of the character's iconic status?"

There's so many possible answers to that question. First there's what Morrison said about there being an inherent contraction at the character's core with her being both the ultimate warrior and ultimate diplomat and writer's having trouble reconciling the two, the fact that she has two such core ideals while other heroes (Batman, Superman, etc.) have one. The fact that because her book never seems to sell well DC tends to relaunch her book with a "Brand New Exciting Status Quo" which means she never has a stable supporting cast and writers tend to ignore what came before. And then there's the fact that if you ask 10 different WW fans what their ideal version of WW is you'll probably end up with 10 vastly different versions of the character.