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Was this "rescue" really necessary?

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  • #16
    Kidnappers often hold people for years. They had no reason to think she was in immediate danger. They just wanted to be in a real-life movie.

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    • #17
      Nope

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      • #18
        The rescue was necessary but it should've been done by the SBS or SAS, you know, people who actually do their job and don't shoot everything/blow up within their line of sight


        Originally posted by Plastroncafe
        Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom From Being Called Out For Spouting Bullshit.

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        • #19
          Can anyone say "Pat Tillman"?

          US grenade may have killed hostage, Cameron admits

          By Kim Sengupta and Julius Cavendish in Kabul

          The American and British governments' account of the death of Linda Norgrove in Afghanistan fell apart yesterday, with the revelation that she may have been killed by the US forces sent to free her.

          David Cameron was forced to retract his claim that the 36-year-old aid worker had been murdered by one of her captors. Instead, the Prime Minister said, a grenade thrown by an American soldier may have killed her.

          None of the US special forces taking part initially reported throwing fragmentation grenades near Ms Norgrove, and it only came to light after video footage from head cameras worn by members of the squad was examined.

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          General David Petraeus, the US commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan, called David Cameron yesterday morning to inform him of the discovery, and ordered an inquiry into the operation amid angry recriminations.

          John and Lorna Norgrove, Linda's parents, are still waiting for a full explanation of what happened. Yesterday they were joined by their second daughter, Sofie, at their home on the Isle of Lewis. Mr Norgrove said: "We are not saying anything at the moment. We might issue a statement in another day or two, we're not certain, but now we are not saying anything."

          The exact terms of the inquiry is yet to be decided. But, according to Nato officials, among the questions it would address is why US, Nato and British officials were so forcefully claiming that Ms Norgrove's death was due to a suicide detonation before all the evidence had been reviewed – and also why highly destructive fragmentation grenades were used in a mission where avoiding harming the hostage would be the primary concern.

          The Prime Minister, who had personally authorised the operation, said that he had spoken to Ms Norgrove's family about the "deeply distressing" news and it was " deeply regrettable" that the official version of events had proved to be incorrect. "We must get to the bottom of what happened, first of all, so the family gets this information and knows exactly how their daughter died," he added.

          A number of Afghan officials maintained that the kidnappers, who had worn Afghan army uniforms, were criminals rather than insurgents who had already made indirect contact with British diplomats in Kabul with the aim of freeing her in return for a large ransom. One source with knowledge of the discussions claimed that there was only a marginal risk of Ms Norgrove being spirited across the border. "They were not hardcore insurgents. That's complete rubbish, they were after money," he said .

          Earlier Khalilullah Zaiyi, the police chief of Kunar province, stated that a delegation of 22 local elders had arranged a meeting with the kidnappers. He stressed that previous abductions have been resolved through negotiations and there was no reason to believe that should not be the case this time as well. Mohammed Azar, one of the elders, said: "We are certain we could have been successful, but we were not given the time needed to do this."

          Mr Cameron said: "In the end this is an issue of a very difficult judgement... You can never be certain that an option like this will lead to the rescue of the hostage ... In the end you have to make a decision whether to go ahead or not.

          "I will obviously go over in my own mind a hundred times as to whether it was the right decision but I profoundly believe it was, given the advice and the information and everything we knew about Linda's dreadful situation having been taken hostage."

          Downing Street said last night that Mr Cameron had also spoken with President Barack Obama, who offered his condolences for Ms Norgrove’s death, and said there would be close co-operation between the US and the UK in the forthcoming investigation.

          British troops were not involved in the rescue operation apart from a liaison officer and some military sources held yesterday that UK special forces – the SAS and SBS – would have handled matters differently.

          However defence officials pointed out that a British-led mission to rescue the New York Times journalist Stephen Farrell resulted in the death of a soldier and civilians, including a fellow hostage Sultan Munadi, an Afghan journalist.

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          • #20
            Damn straight, if the Yankees killed them, the Yankees are gonna pay for killing them


            Originally posted by Plastroncafe
            Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom From Being Called Out For Spouting Bullshit.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Spy Smasher View Post
              Kidnappers often hold people for years. They had no reason to think she was in immediate danger. They just wanted to be in a real-life movie.
              Sometimes they hold people for years, and sometimes they behead them and show videos on the internet. How do YOU know which it would be? And do you really think everybody would be OK with just saying, "Eh, MAYBE they won't hurt her. Let's just wait a couple years and see what happens?"

              I would expect that, in the several days since she was kidnapped, they were able to get some sense of how amenable to negotiation the kidnappers were. Bottom line, though, is that they certainly had more information about what the situation was than you do. For you to knee-jerk assume that attempting a rescue was the wrong thing to do is laughable (or would be if the situation weren't so serious).

              That said, it DOES seem as if the operation could have been better planned. Like they said, why would you use fragmentation grenades in a rescue operation?
              Mister Ed
              Horse of a Different Color
              Last edited by Mister Ed; 10-12-2010, 12:28 PM.

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              • #22
                obviously you haven't seen enough movies Smasher, kidnap attempts never end peacefully. Even if you continually pay ransoms.


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                • #23
                  Did you even read the second article? The kidnappers were simple bandits. The Afghans opposed the rescue mission. And it seems that an American grenade was what killed this woman.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Spy Smasher View Post
                    Did you even read the second article? The kidnappers were simple bandits. The Afghans opposed the rescue mission. And it seems that an American grenade was what killed this woman.
                    And so, you guys've gotta pay for fucking this up


                    Originally posted by Plastroncafe
                    Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom From Being Called Out For Spouting Bullshit.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mrt1000son View Post
                      And so, you guys've gotta pay for fucking this up
                      shut up Mrt. The only time the British SAS has looked cool was in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.


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                      • #26
                        I'm pretty sure Britain has fucked up on rescue missions as well

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by irongreen2814 View Post
                          I'm pretty sure Britain has fucked up on rescue missions as well
                          I donīt remember many fuckups of the SAS, and I have read some about them. Still shit happens.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JohnnyV View Post
                            shut up Mrt. The only time the British SAS has looked cool was in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.
                            We were the ones who kicked ass in that game, the marines just went sterile and died of rad poisoning


                            Also I'm pretty confident in saying the SAS have never blown up the hostages they try and rescue, since they actually train for the mission beforehand and don't do it on the spur of the moment


                            Originally posted by Plastroncafe
                            Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom From Being Called Out For Spouting Bullshit.

                            Comment

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